So what selection pressure do I have to watch out for, that might make me a monkey?

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So let me see if I've got this right. There was a selection pressure that pushed fish to land creatures, and a selection pressure that pushed land creatures to mammals, and a selection pressure that pushed mammals to monkeys, and a selection pressure that pushed monkeys to humans... and if I don't watch out, the selection pressures that pushed monkeys to humans will be forgotten or confused with the selection pressure that pushes mammals to monkeys. Like I have to watch out, right? Like there's no real reason why the selection pressure that made mammals monkeys would refrain from turning humans into monkeys, if humans stopped responding to the pressure that made monkeys humans...

...that seems to be your logic.

Tell me where I'm wrong...

Thanks.

 

[crjmurray]

Hi there,

So let me see if I've got this right. There was a selection pressure that pushed fish to land creatures, and a selection pressure that pushed land creatures to mammals, and a selection pressure that pushed mammals to monkeys, and a selection pressure that pushed monkeys to humans... and if I don't watch out, the selection pressures that pushed monkeys to humans will be forgotten or confused with the selection pressure that pushes mammals to monkeys. Like I have to watch out, right? Like there's no real reason why the selection pressure that made mammals monkeys would refrain from turning humans into monkeys, if humans stopped responding to the pressure that made monkeys humans...

...that seems to be your logic.

Tell me where I'm wrong...

Thanks.

Stay away from James Franco and you should be fine.

 

[[serious]]

Hi there,

So let me see if I've got this right. There was a selection pressure that pushed fish to land creatures, and a selection pressure that pushed land creatures to mammals, and a selection pressure that pushed mammals to monkeys, and a selection pressure that pushed monkeys to humans... and if I don't watch out, the selection pressures that pushed monkeys to humans will be forgotten or confused with the selection pressure that pushes mammals to monkeys. Like I have to watch out, right? Like there's no real reason why the selection pressure that made mammals monkeys would refrain from turning humans into monkeys, if humans stopped responding to the pressure that made monkeys humans...

...that seems to be your logic.

Tell me where I'm wrong...

Thanks.

Oh, Hi gott, I see you are posting about evolution. Before we continue, a few reminders about what evolution is and isn't. These should all look familiar, because you've been told them before. Many, many times.

1. Evolution is the change in allele frequency in a population over time.
2. We don't choose to, or not to, evolve
3. Populations evolve, individuals don't.
4. Evolution is a description of real world events, not a theory of morality. It does not proscribe any action on our part.
5. There is no such thing as "completely evolved." Evolution is a process, not an end point.
6. All modern day creatures have been evolving for the same amount of time and are thus equally evolved.
7. Non living things don't evolve
8. "Belief" is not a genetic trait. Belief does not evolve in the biological sense.
9. We do not expect all populations to solve all problems in the exact same way. (ex. The fact that birds evolved wings does not mean we expect all creatures to evolve wings)
10. Adding the "evolved" or "evolutionarily" doesn't make what ever you are saying relevant to evolution. (ex. "what's the best pizza topping, evolutionarily speaking" makes no sense because pizza toppings are unrelated to evolution.)
11. Not knowing how something works doesn't keep it from working.

 

[AV1611VET]

So what selection pressure do I have to watch out for, that might make me a monkey?

I don't know of one that will make you a monkey; but evolution itself is a philosophy that will spoil you.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

For evolution to sell today, it has to reduce man down to alleles and DNA and whatnot -- and these "rudiments of the world" are what Paul warns us about.

And left unchecked, evolution can lead one to accept the "fact" that he is a "wise man" (Homo sapiens) by birth.

Once a person accepts this lie, then he is in danger of becoming an atheist.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And notice in the context of that passage that these men were, at one time, believers who were able to see God's glory in His creation ...

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

... but somewhere along the way, they accepted some [prescience] version of evolution, and the seed that was sown in them germinated and led to ...

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

... renouncing their faith in God and becoming atheists.

Many here claim they were Christians at one time, and have even read the Bible many times, but now post under an atheist's icon.

 

[Nithavela]

This is getting so old.

 

[AV1611VET]

This is getting so old.

Even though your life view is "absurdism"?

 

[Nithavela]

When something is absurd a hundred times, in the exact same way, wouldn't you agree that it is no longer absurd, but rather tedious and mundane?

It's like groundhog day. Or someone getting a pie thrown in his face every morning when he exits his morning commute train, for 35 years.

 

[AV1611VET]

When something is absurd a hundred times, in the exact same way, wouldn't you agree that it is no longer absurd, but rather tedious and mundane?

What do you want me to do: change my mind every time I post, to keep you happy?

You want me to be Omphalos one post, Last Thursday the next, OEC the next, YEC the next, etc. the next?

For someone who posts <2 posts per day, you must get bored easily.

 

[Nithavela]

Oh. I see.

I wasn't referring to you being tedious. I hardly skimmed over your post. I was referring to Gottservant.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh. I see.

I wasn't referring to you being tedious. I hardly skimmed over your post. I was referring to Gottservant.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

-- Oops! Sorry then. The mistake was mine!

 

[Inkfingers]

Hi there,

So let me see if I've got this right. There was a selection pressure that pushed fish to land creatures, and a selection pressure that pushed land creatures to mammals, and a selection pressure that pushed mammals to monkeys, and a selection pressure that pushed monkeys to humans... and if I don't watch out, the selection pressures that pushed monkeys to humans will be forgotten or confused with the selection pressure that pushes mammals to monkeys. Like I have to watch out, right? Like there's no real reason why the selection pressure that made mammals monkeys would refrain from turning humans into monkeys, if humans stopped responding to the pressure that made monkeys humans...

...that seems to be your logic.

Tell me where I'm wrong...

Thanks.

Individual persons do not spontaneously mutate into monkeys. Monkeys are born, not made.

It would help greatly if you read the science on the subject.

And yes I know it is tempting to think otherwise after spending a while looking at the internet

 

[selfinflikted]

Gotts, stop posting about evolution.

 

[pgp_protector]

Gotts, stop posting about evolution.

 

[True Scotsman]

Hi there,

So let me see if I've got this right. There was a selection pressure that pushed fish to land creatures, and a selection pressure that pushed land creatures to mammals, and a selection pressure that pushed mammals to monkeys, and a selection pressure that pushed monkeys to humans... and if I don't watch out, the selection pressures that pushed monkeys to humans will be forgotten or confused with the selection pressure that pushes mammals to monkeys. Like I have to watch out, right? Like there's no real reason why the selection pressure that made mammals monkeys would refrain from turning humans into monkeys, if humans stopped responding to the pressure that made monkeys humans...

...that seems to be your logic.

Tell me where I'm wrong...

Thanks.

No. We are already mammals and also monkeys, at least apes. We are one species of great ape. And individuals don't evolve, populations do. There's no excuse for such errors in this day and age of the internet. Educate yourself and all of these weird questions you ask will cease to make any sense as they do to the rest of us.

 

[RealityCheck01]

Hi there,

...

Tell me where I'm wrong...

Thanks.

An easy question to answer, Gottservant:
You go wrong because there is no such thing as "selection pressure" to produce another species.

This is something that even biology textbooks get wrong with their diagram of fish to land animal to shrew-like mammal to monkey to ape to human.

There is evolutionary pressure which is the spread of inherited traits through a population.

ETA: Dollo's law of irreversibility (actually a hypothesis) suggests no going back to actual monkeys.

You are welcome.

 

[Kylie]

Gotts, individuals don't evolve. Why do you keep saying these things when you have been corrected?

 

[crjmurray]

Gotts, individuals don't evolve. Why do you keep saying these things when you have been corrected?

^^^^^ This is a really common trend amongst the posters here and I don't understand it. Some posters haven't just been told but have been shown that they are wrong. In most cases it is just bold face lying but in Gotts case I don't think he actually can understand anything about evolution. Maybe someone should go create a topic on why creationists lie? Nah don't do that....

 

[AV1611VET]

^^^^^ This is a really common trend amongst the posters here and I don't understand it. Some posters haven't just been told but have been shown that they are wrong. In most cases it is just bold face lying but in Gotts case I don't think he actually can understand anything about evolution. Maybe someone should go create a topic on why creationists lie? Nah don't do that....

Gottservant is, if I'm correct, a Swedenborgian.

And Swedenborgianism believes, again if I'm correct, in the concept of individual evolution.

In other words, Gottservant is not lying; it is what he believes.

(Gottservant, please correct me if otherwise.)

 

[crjmurray]

Gottservant is, if I'm correct, a Swedenborgian.

And Swedenborgianism believes, again if I'm correct, in the concept of individual evolution.

In other words, Gottservant is not lying; it is what he believes.

(Gottservant, please correct me if otherwise.)

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post but I didn't mean that Gott was lying. I'm usually pretty clear when I accuse someone of that. However if what you say is true then it could explain a lot.

 

[AV1611VET]

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post but I didn't mean that Gott was lying. I'm usually pretty clear when I accuse someone of that. However if what you say is true then it could explain a lot.

People who get on Gottservant's case about "individuals don't evolve, populations do" are just showing their ignorance about religious beliefs.

Something I've learned to expect around here.