Romans 11:26 - 'all Israel' is the 'fullness of the Gentiles'

[ThatTrueLight]

Where or how did the OP come up with the fulness of the Gentiles being all Israel?

Did I miss something?

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Doesn't the scripture say that Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in?

 

[Straightshot]

It does, but the replacement theology held by most of the divisions of the professing "church" tell that the Lord is finished with His nation of Israel

They then teach it is their "church" organization that has become [spiritual] Israel .... all of this is for proprietary ambition and that their "church" movement has the truth above the others

This behavior has been going on for centuries

 

[random person]

It does, but the replacement theology held by most of the divisions of the professing "church" tell that the Lord is finished with His nation of Israel

They then teach it is their "church" organization that has become [spiritual] Israel .... all of this is for proprietary ambition and that their "church" movement has the truth above the others

This behavior has been going on for centuries

Well, how important is circumcision to the nation of Israel?

And how important is circumcision to the church?

If you do not see Christ throughout the whole Old Testament than perhaps you are reading it incorrectly.

Get a clue, read the New Testament as the final authority on the Old Testament. Read the Bible as the New Covenant superceding the Old Covenant.

Jeremiah 31 states God will make a new covenant with Israel unlike the one he made with them through Moses.

Did Jeremiah write "like"? No, he wrote "unlike". Meaning different and new.

 

[random person]

Doesn't the scripture say that Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in?

Yes, and God has always preserved a remnant that will believe in Christ. Remember the olive tree and its branches.

 

[random person]

The New Testament has the final say and is the final authority.

The Old Testament conforms to the New Testament NOT vice versa.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

It does, but the replacement theology held by most of the divisions of the professing "church" tell that the Lord is finished with His nation of Israel

They then teach it is their "church" organization that has become [spiritual] Israel .... all of this is for proprietary ambition and that their "church" movement has the truth above the others

This behavior has been going on for centuries

Maybe a few centuries ago, sure. But today, with everything that is happening, I don't think so.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Yes, and God has always preserved a remnant that will believe in Christ. Remember the olive tree and its branches.

Definitely not the context.

Not only is Israel blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, they are also enemies concerning the gospel at this present time.

But according to God, they are His elect when He comes. See Matthew 24 about that. It's all about Israel and Christ coming the second time.

 

[random person]

Maybe a few centuries ago, sure. But today, with everything that is happening, I don't think so.

And what is happening?

The state of Israel is secular and Zionism was founded by atheists. And furthermore, Israel has one of the highest proportions of non believers in the whole world!

Israel is a haven for sodomites, Israel remains, essentially, an Open, Liberal and Pluralistic society.In the fields of Equality for Women, and Gay Rights, Israel is not only unique in the entire Middle East but is on a par with any country in the world. Gay pride events are held annually in major cities, INCLUDING Jerusalem . LGBT societies are active, and Tel Aviv is an internationally promoted center for Gay tourism in the whole Middle East. Even openly promotes homosexuality in its military, the IDF.

Now go read back in your Old Testament? Does this resemble obedient Biblical Israel or apostate Biblical Israel.

So I ask again, what is happening?

 

[ThatTrueLight]

And what is happening?

The state of Israel is secular and Zionism was founded by atheists. And furthermore, Israel has one of the highest proportions of non believers in the whole world!

Israel is a haven for sodomites, Israel remains, essentially, an Open, Liberal and Pluralistic society.In the fields of Equality for Women, and Gay Rights, Israel is not only unique in the entire Middle East but is on a par with any country in the world. Gay pride events are held annually in major cities, INCLUDING Jerusalem . LGBT societies are active, and Tel Aviv is an internationally promoted center for Gay tourism in the whole Middle East. Even openly promotes homosexuality in its military, the IDF.

Now go read back in your Old Testament? Does this resemble obedient Biblical Israel or apostate Biblical Israel.

So I ask again, what is happening?

All signs of the times and of that day approaching according to Hebrews.

Christ is coming again and that is clearly closer than a few centuries ago.

 

[random person]

And what is happening?

The state of Israel is secular and Zionism was founded by atheists. And furthermore, Israel has one of the highest proportions of non believers in the whole world!

Israel is a haven for sodomites, Israel remains, essentially, an Open, Liberal and Pluralistic society.In the fields of Equality for Women, and Gay Rights, Israel is not only unique in the entire Middle East but is on a par with any country in the world. Gay pride events are held annually in major cities, INCLUDING Jerusalem . LGBT societies are active, and Tel Aviv is an internationally promoted center for Gay tourism in the whole Middle East. Even openly promotes homosexuality in its military, the IDF.

Now go read back in your Old Testament? Does this resemble obedient Biblical Israel or apostate Biblical Israel.

So I ask again, what is happening?

if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Leviticus 18:28



Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. Leviticus 20:22

 

[random person]

All signs of the times and of that day approaching according to Hebrews.

Christ is coming again and that is clearly closer than a few centuries ago.

What because of Israel?

God promised the Jews a return to the land on one stipulation, repent and be obedient. He would never return them to the land in disbelief.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

What because of Israel?

God promised the Jews a return to the land on one stipulation, repent and be obedient. He would never return them to the land in disbelief.

You do believe Matthew 24 don't you? Matthew 25 as well.

I see Israel all over that, don't you?

Christ coming? Israel?

See anything there?

Add Romans 11

 

[random person]

You do believe Matthew 24 don't you? Matthew 25 as well.

I see Israel all over that, don't you?

Christ coming? Israel?

See anything there?

Add Romans 11

I am a preterist.

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 23Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

24Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: 25And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. 26Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: 27(For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled 28That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. 29For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. 30Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 18:22-30

1And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, 2And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; 3That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. 4If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: 5And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

Deuteronomy 30:1-5

 

[Straightshot]

"He would never return them to the land in disbelief."


He already has and this calling is still ongoing as we speak

Get your biblical facts straight

And .... the Lord is Himself an Israelite by His humanity [Revelation 5:5]

Not only that but He is a "futurist" and a "Zionist" Himself

Get a good Bible search engine and type "Zionist" [Zion] in the search box

See how many times He is linked to Zionism and what this term means

Israel is in blindness today .... but this is going to change dramatically for a remnant part of the nation [Isaiah 11; Joel 2; 3; Micah 4; 5; Zechariah 12; 13:8-9; 14; 27:12-13; Matthew 24; Romans 11;25-36]

But this turning requires for the tiny nation to be in the land to experience the coming time of Jacob's trouble

So just because this stigma is used to tell that Israel has no future purpose in the Lord's future intents is far from the truth about the matter

The prophetic scriptures are loaded with what is to come for Israel

Preterism is way off course and simply an unrealistic view of the Bible prophets and the unfulfilled portion of their revealings .... attempting to force the same into the past creates much difficulty and contradiction for the preterist

..... so much that the same has to commit many verses of scripture into selective metaphor and allegory

 

[random person]

Yes .... get the facts straight

And .... the Lord is Himself an Israelite by His humanity [Revelation 5:5]

Not only that but He is a "futurist" and a "Zionist"

Get a good Bible search engine and type "Zionist" [Zion] in the search box

See how many times He is linked to Zionism and what this term means

Israel is in blindness today .... but this is going to change dramatically for a remnant part of the nation

So just because this stigma is used to tell that Israel has no future purpose in the Lord's future intents is far from the truth about the matter

The prophetic scriptures are loaded with what is coming

If the Jews defile the Land they will be spewed out of it and go into captivity.

If the Jews return to the Lord and obey His voice with all their hearts and with all their souls, then the Lord will regather them.

 

[Steve Petersen]

There is another place where 'the fulness of the Gentiles' is used, but it is only apparent in the Hebrew. That is the place where Jacob is adopting and blessing his grandsons, Ephraim and Manssseh in Egypt.

Genesis 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

The phrase 'multitude of nations' in Hebrew is 'melo ha goyim,' literally 'the fulness of the Gentiles (nations.)

Ephraim's name means 'fruitful.' Somehow, the fulness of the Gentiles is related to fruitfulness or fulness. Perhaps Paul means to say that the fullness of the Gentiles means 'until the number of them has reached their fulness.' Exactly in what sense, I don't know. Could be simply 'filling the earth' or it may have some spiritual meaning (saved?) or both?

 

[Danoh]

Definitely not the context.

Not only is Israel blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, they are also enemies concerning the gospel at this present time.

But according to God, they are His elect when He comes. See Matthew 24 about that. It's all about Israel and Christ coming the second time.

Talk to a Replacementist about context knowing full well you are addressing their pretext, and as a result you are basically talking to a whited wall.

2 Timothy 3 applies:

5. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

The absolute, indisputable fact of the matter as to Israel's New Covenant is that it is not according to the Old only in the sense that the forgiveness of sins under the Old was conditional whereas the New is not only unconditional - in that it is in "my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins," Matt. 26:28, but will put His Law in their inward parts, that is, write It in their hearts, but also enable Israel to keep the said Law.

Jeremiah 31:

31. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

When the heck has all the promise of the following ever been the case?

16. Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
17. Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
18. Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
19. And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
20. And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.
21. But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
29. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
30. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
31. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
32. Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
33. Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.
34. And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.
35. And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.
36. Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.
37. Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.
38. As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Do Replacementists even know what "the LORD GOD" even means in all that?

Bad enough they make Him out a liar; do they even know who said LORD GOD is being referred to in that way in these promises?

The Old is, as to the above, isnot interpreted by the New - the New, as to the above, is the Old realized - "when it shall be" in - its - due season.

The Replacementist confuses Hebrews with Romans, after Romans is made the mess it is made by said Replacementist.

 

[Straightshot]

"If the Jews defile the Land they will be spewed out of it and go into captivity.

If the Jews return to the Lord and obey His voice with all their hearts and with all their souls, then the Lord will regather them'


All assumptions above and not supported by scripture

explain this passage .... then I will give you more

Ezekiel
36:1 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:

36:2 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:

36:3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:

36:4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;

36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

36:6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:

36:7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.

36:8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

36:9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

36:10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

36:11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

36:12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

36:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:

36:14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

36:18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

36:33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

36:37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.

36:38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

 

[Danoh]

Until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled, Luke 21:24

Straightshot, I am all for God's Zionism, I hope you see that. I am very clear on that.

At the same time, that land was left desolate until "the [political] times of the Gentiles" that God allowed make that land desolate, "be fulfilled" or come to their end.

Those there now are there in disobedience. That God foresaw that they would one day return in disobedience does not mean that He put them there.

This is similar to how He made use of the roads to spread the gospel of Christ - roads that the great Romans Empire built in pursuit of its own, Genesis 11, Romans 1 vanity of their mind.

Its about the only case the Pre-text-tur-ist can make, only to screw that up as well.

Said political fulness of the Gentiles is not Romans 11's spiritual "fulness."

Rather, it is the political "fulness" that is the whole of Daniel [not the one chapter the Scripturally ignorant so over rely on].

Said political times of the Gentiles began with the Babylonian captivity and is very much still in place in the time of Christ, as it is even now - John 19:

10. Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
11. Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Daniel 2:

43. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Daniel 12:

1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.