What Would Evidence for God's Existence Be Like?

[bhsmte]

I have said the same thing through pm to another poster but I ask this, in consideration of evidence:
For those who say they would need video or photo evidence, if that is the case do you believe aliens exist? There have been countless "actual footage" videos that support UFOs.

Few things; footage can be forged and so can personal accounts, as well as them just being plain wrong.

With that said, UFO stands for unidentified flying object, it does not stand for, unidentified flying object, being flown by aliens.

Now, there have been some very compelling records of UFO sightings and many from credible people, with multiple eye witnesses that saw the same thing. This means, they saw something they could not identify, it does not automatically mean, what they couldn't identify, was being flown by aliens.

There certainly could be life elsewhere, that has superior technology and could buzz around earth with their space craft. We have solid evidence things fly around that can not be identified by human eyes, we just don't have solid evidence what they indeed are and whether aliens are involved.

 

[Colter]

Actions such as?

Well, here, you could take the 12 steps, just change step one. Many hopelessly lost people of all types find God by doing this:


1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.


2.Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.


3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.


4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.


5.Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.


6.Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.


7.Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.


8.Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.


9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.


10.Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.


11.Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.


12.Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

 

[Davian]

I have said the same thing through pm to another poster but I ask this, in consideration of evidence:
For those who say they would need video or photo evidence, if that is the case do you believe aliens exist? There have been countless "actual footage" videos that support UFOs.

By "UFO", you mean "air/spacecraft of unknown origin".

Interestingly, despite the massive proliferation of cameras (ie very cell phone) the photographic evidence for appearances of alien craft, Bigfoot, Elvis, Jesus, and the Loch Ness monster is still lacking.

For those who would require speaking to God in person as your evidence, do you call the people who claim to have spoken to God themselves "delusional" or "hallucinating"? So for God to speak to you, you must be delusional or halucinating.

That would seem to be the professional diagnosis.

For those who would require witness from a trusted person, if millions are witness every day and have been for thousands of years, that should be just as trustworthy.

“All the hundreds of millions of people who, in their time, believed the Earth was flat never succeeded in unrounding it by an inch.” ― Isaac Asimov

It has been twisted in such a way that evidence will never be satisfactory to everyone, because God wants us to have faith, not be forced to believe.

Belief is not a choice.

He wants us to go to Him because we desire to,

Not if he is entirely imaginary.

not because the evidence pointed us to Him,

A tacit admission that the evidence does not point to him.

and we have to obey because we have evidence.

We have to obey because we have evidence that does not point to him. Say again?

He wants us to obey because we want to.

Not if he is entirely imaginary.

The evidence will never be sufficient so long as someone is constantly looking for fault.

Have you tried presenting what evidence you might have in the form of a testable hypothesis? Or is that against the rules?

God has designed it to be so and it is repeated that we should not seek proof. There is just cause for this.

Or, the writers of the bible knew that they had no evidence to back their stories, and wrote accordingly. "The evidence for this god is self-evident! It says so right in the bible."

One thing to add, since there have been skeptics for thousands of years, with no luck (not happening)

The argument from popularity is a fallacy.

 

[Eudaimonist]

For those who say they would need video or photo evidence, if that is the case do you believe aliens exist? There have been countless "actual footage" videos that support UFOs.

Just because this article is timely:

CIA Claims Responsibility for over Half of the UFO Sightings in Released Document


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[kristina411]

Lol you guys! Way to dance around the point

 

[kristina411]

Just because this article is timely:

CIA Claims Responsibility for over Half of the UFO Sightings in Released Document


eudaimonia,

Mark

Irrelevant to my post but none the less, I'm not surprised. Thanks for this, validates my assumption.

 

[Colter]

The imperfection, inconsistency, contradictions and mystery of the evolution of the Bible is in my opinion, authenticating. All things considered, it's what one would expect given the circumstances of it's development. BTW, you would never, ever, not in a million years have 11 Jewish fisherman write a story where the women were the first to believe in the resurrection while they hid out in confusion and even doubt! That stuff aint happnin!

 

[Loudmouth]

I have said the same thing through pm to another poster but I ask this, in consideration of evidence:
For those who say they would need video or photo evidence, if that is the case do you believe aliens exist? There have been countless "actual footage" videos that support UFOs. Knowing they could be forged would be just another excuse for skeptics, just like ufo/alien footage that had been edited

I would need compelling evidence. Blurry and faked videos are not that compelling.

For those who would require speaking to God in person as your evidence, do you call the people who claim to have spoken to God themselves "delusional" or "hallucinating"? So for God to speak to you, you must be delusional or halucinating.

I would expect someone to provide the same evidence for God that they would for having a girlfriend, or having a '69 Shelby GT Mustang. If someone says that they are in a relationship with a girl, would I expect the girlfriend to be invisible and only be heard by my friend? What I wouldn't accept is evidence that is indistinguishable from God not existing at all.

For those who would require witness from a trusted person, if millions are witness every day and have been for thousands of years, that should be just as trustworthy.

Witness to what?

It has been twisted in such a way that evidence will never be satisfactory to everyone, because God wants us to have faith, not be forced to believe.

Did my parents force me to believe and obey in them by making it so easy to confirm their existence? Can people only have relationships with friends that can not be shown to exist?

It seems to me that people only make these excuses because they don't have evidence.

God has designed it to be so and it is repeated that we should not seek proof.

That is indistinguishable form a world where there is no God.

 

[bhsmte]

Irrelevant to my post but none the less, I'm not surprised. Thanks for this, validates my assumption.

How does it validate your assumption?

 

[Freodin]

The imperfection, inconsistency, contradictions and mystery of the evolution of the Bible is in my opinion, authenticating. All things considered, it's what one would expect given the circumstances of it's development.

Well, yes. It is what you would consider to be written by a large number of humans who shared a general belief in a certain deity. Nothing more.

BTW, you would never, ever, not in a million years have 11 Jewish fisherman write a story where the women were the first to believe in the resurrection while they hid out in confusion and even doubt! That stuff aint happnin!

Well, it wasn't written by 11 Jewish fishermen...

 

[kristina411]

How does it validate your assumption?

Because I have always assumed most of the reports were government air crafts.

My point wasn't on aliens, this is a philosophy forum so it should be understood that when one is talking it more often is about the purpose behind the statement and not necessarily the specifics of the statement. The purpose is: Video evidence is not sufficient to prove anything to every skeptic because some will always insist it was forged.

 

[Davian]

Well, here, you could take the 12 steps, just change step one. Many hopelessly lost people of all types find God by doing this:


1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.


2.Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.


3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.


4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.


5.Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.


6.Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.


7.Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.


8.Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.


9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.


10.Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.


11.Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.


12.Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

The Surprising Failures of 12 Steps - The Atlantic

 

[bhsmte]

Because I have always assumed most of the reports were government air crafts.

My point wasn't on aliens, this is a philosophy forum so it should be understood that when one is talking it more often is about the purpose behind the statement and not necessarily the specifics of the statement. The purpose is: Video evidence is not sufficient to prove anything to every skeptic because some will always insist it was forged.

If your point didn't also address aliens, why did you say this then?
"
I have said the same thing through pm to another poster but I ask this, in consideration of evidence:
For those who say they would need video or photo evidence, if that is the case do you believe aliens exist? There have been countless "actual footage" videos that support UFOs. Knowing they could be forged would be just another excuse for skeptics, just like ufo/alien footage that had been edited"

 

[kristina411]

If your point didn't also address aliens, why did you say this then?
"
I have said the same thing through pm to another poster but I ask this, in consideration of evidence:
For those who say they would need video or photo evidence, if that is the case do you believe aliens exist? There have been countless "actual footage" videos that support UFOs. Knowing they could be forged would be just another excuse for skeptics, just like ufo/alien footage that had been edited"

I explained this in my last post. Refer to previous post for your answer.

 

[JGG]

Because I have always assumed most of the reports were government air crafts.

So you yourself are skeptical of the reports, and video footage of UFOs, all of the testimony of all of those who believe in UFO activity, and yet you are condemning me for exactly the same thing?

My point wasn't on aliens, this is a philosophy forum so it should be understood that when one is talking it more often is about the purpose behind the statement and not necessarily the specifics of the statement. The purpose is: Video evidence is not sufficient to prove anything to every skeptic because some will always insist it was forged.

Do we also agree that the personal testimonies of UFO hunters are something we should be skeptical of. They see what they see because they want and expect to see it?

 

[kristina411]

So you yourself are skeptical of the reports, and video footage of UFOs, all of the testimony of all of those who believe in UFO activity, and yet you are condemning me for exactly the same thing?

Lol I haven't "condemned" you at all. You seem to be confused. I stated my opinion, my opinion was dug into and somehow I have condemned you?
I am interested to know how I condemned you?

Do we also agree that the personal testimonies of UFO hunters are something we should be skeptical of. They see what they see because they want and expect to see it?

You are just proving my point. That skeptics will find fault no matter what the evidence shows.

 

[bhsmte]

Lol I haven't "condemned" you at all. You seem to be confused. I stated my opinion, my opinion was dug into and somehow I have condemned you?
I am interested to know how I condemned you?




You are just proving my point. That skeptics will find fault no matter what the evidence shows.

I don't know if it is just me, but your thoughts seem to be all over the place.

 

[JGG]

Lol I haven't "condemned" you at all. You seem to be confused. I stated my opinion, my opinion was dug into and somehow I have condemned you?
I am interested to know how I condemned you?

This thread: http://www.christianforums.com/t7864942/

For those who would require speaking to God in person as your evidence, do you call the people who claim to have spoken to God themselves "delusional" or "hallucinating"? So for God to speak to you, you must be delusional or halucinating.

For those who would require witness from a trusted person, if millions are witness every day and have been for thousands of years, that should be just as trustworthy.

It has been twisted in such a way that evidence will never be satisfactory to everyone, because God wants us to have faith, not be forced to believe. He wants us to go to Him because we desire to, not because the evidence pointed us to Him, and we have to obey because we have evidence. He wants us to obey because we want to.

The evidence will never be sufficient so long as someone is constantly looking for fault. God has designed it to be so and it is repeated that we should not seek proof. There is just cause for this.

One thing to add, since there have been skeptics for thousands of years, with no luck (not happening)

And you didn't answer my question: Are you skeptical of UFOs?

You are just proving my point. That skeptics will find fault no matter what the evidence shows.

Then you understand why we have to be skeptical? Why we have to disregard your testimony? Do you believe that UFOs come to Earth, "abduct" people, and then "probe" them only to have all the evidence vanish, or be circumstancial? Or are you skeptical? Do you disregard their testimony?

 

[kristina411]

This thread: http://www.christianforums.com/t7864942/







Then you understand why we have to be skeptical? Why we have to disregard your testimony? Do you believe that UFOs come to Earth, "abduct" people, and then "probe" them? Or are you skeptical? Do you disregard their testimony?

You did not answer my question, how did I "condemn" you?

I do understand why there are skeptics as I outlined in the text you quoted.

 

[kristina411]

I don't know if it is just me, but your thoughts seem to be all over the place.

When you are ready for actual productive discussion I am here.