Once again: If you/we do not forgive others who have trespassed against you/us, will you/we be forgiven?
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
the miracle of forgiveness by w kimball??
- Thread starter joneysd
- Start date
Jesus said if we love Him, we keep His commandments. When we break His commandments, it shows us that our love for Him is not at the level that it can and must be. That would mean our capacity to love one another is still below our potential. Thank God for Grace, so we can repent and learn to love as He loves. Heaven in the presence of God is what it is, because those who reside there will have learned to love to the fullness of our potential. Our potential is a reflection of our creation in His image and likeness. With free will, we choose to develop that potential, or be less than our potential.
Love, the genuine variety, is the culmination of keeping all of God's commandments, because the commandments teach and train us to deny self and place others before us. They teach and train us to submit and sacrifice our will to God. That is why Love is the greatest commandment, because the fulfillment of all commandments = Love.
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. It is a "cover all" definition. Jesus is Truth. The commandments are subsets of Truth. If we reject a subset, that is pardonable, ... pending penetence. Until we repent of our sins (which sins are denying truth), the Spirit delays the full witness of Truth, which is Jesus Christ, else we become perdition. We must have that full witness, and accept and govern ourselves by it, to return to the Father.
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no its not a coverall at all, it is what it says the, notice "the" unpardonable sin, so everything else is pardonable by God...
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Are you suggesting that God will forgive us of our trespasses, regardless that we do not forgive others?no its not a coverall at all, it is what it says the, notice "the" unpardonable sin, so everything else is pardonable by God...
All sins are pardonable after we repent of them. Repenting means turning from them and to never repeat them. That cannot happen without true conversion, which even Peter was still working on.
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the bible says there is one unpardonable sin, so what does that tell you..
are repentance is accepting Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, his righteousness becomes ours.
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It tells me you are avoiding my question. Perhaps you should read the text.
Matthew 6:15
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Perhaps the real meaning of accepting Jesus is to follow Him by doing all things He instructs us.
Heb 5: 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
You seem to be writing your own rules. And this is not only from an LDS perspective. I know many Christian friends that would agree with me on this point.
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And BTW Joney, the sin of not forgiving others is pardonable just like all sins are pardonable under the conditions that God gave us of forsaking our sins. So when we bury our pride and forgive others, the sin is pardoned.
Is it so difficult to see and understand that NOT keeping a commandment is the equivalent of denying a truth? Jesus IS truth, and such denial is a partial denial of Jesus. The Spirit cannot give His full witness of Christ until we fully accept His truths through obedience! It would be unpardonable otherwise. We need a space of time to change and repent. The mistakes we make during that time are pardoned on the conditions of repentance. That forgiveness is through Grace. The stains of sin cannot be cleansed if we do nor depart from the source of those stains.
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in john 3:16 it just says whom so ever shall believe on him, it does not say and then follow all his rules and regs, in fact if you have to keep all the commands perfectly you completely missed the point of Jesus having to come..
the unpardonable sin is still the unpardonable sin, it doesn't state anything else...
I can only assume your needs to change these biblical truths are doctrinal peculiar to your church rather than biblical correctness...
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What in the world does my obedience have to do with whether or not the principle I illustrated is true or not?
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If you believe the principle is true then you would follow it. If you are following it I would like to know how successful you consider yourself to be in following it. If you are not following it, then I have every reason that you really do not believe it to be true unless you can provide a plausible explanation.
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I have, it would be easy to get in to a scripture crossfire here, which would just serve the purpose of making people think the bible contradicts or is somehow incorrect as some would like to say..
What I will ask is why did God need to send his only begotten son , Jesus, if we can keep the commands perfectly and be sinless before God, why did Jesus need to come...
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I have, it would be easy to get in to a scripture crossfire here, which would just serve the purpose of making people think the bible contradicts or is somehow incorrect as some would like to say..
What I will ask is why did God need to send his only begotten son , Jesus, if we can keep the commands perfectly and be sinless before God, why did Jesus need to come...
Good questions.
We cannot keep the commandments perfectly without His Son. We will stumble, fall, and fail miserably. We will never be sinless. Even in our efforts to follow Him, we falter. We can overcome sin with Jesus' help, but overcoming sin does not make us sinless, because we have sinned. We cannot come unto the Father stained. Our stains must be cleansed. Only the blood of the Lamb can cleanse us. But what use is it to cleanse us from the stains if we still hold fast to the source of the stains? We first must let go of sin to be cleansed.
God prepared a way for us to escape temptation, so that we can bear it. (1 Corinthians 10:13) Jesus showed us that prepared way in His living examples, and taught us how in word. Jesus had to come so we could take His yoke upon us. A yoke is a harness that couples two beasts of burden, plowing fields for example. The burdens of keeping the commandments is more than we can do alone.
Matthew 11: 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
It is learning to love, as Jesus loves, that empowers us to overcome evil. We are selfish and full of pride in our carnal state. When we love Jesus more than the things of the world, the burden becomes light. When we have something greater to love, then we loose interest in the world. By that standard, we are no longer carnal. Why do we love God? Because He first loved us. That is why God sent His Son, because He loves us! How do we know that we love God? "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
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