Tell me again about the Socialism

[HonestTruth]

Unfortunately as we have seen what is good for Wall Street isn't necessarily good for Main Street. Additionally, higher corporate profits doesn't mean much when wages are stagnant, and benefits are dropping.


Also, can you elaborate on your points regarding business expansion and saving farms?

Wages may not have gone up as much as they should but that can be attributed to the decline of union power. I believe we discussed that on another thread.

Business expansion exists when stock investment grows, jobs are created, reduction in jobless claims, and as Forbes has acknowledged, we have seen the largest growth in private job creation in USA history under President Obama.

As for farms, we get very little discussion of that but Mr Obamas signing of the farm bill in February preserved thousands of family farms and related industries. It keeps rural communities from closing down into ghost towns, promotes sales of tractors thereby keeping those companies operating, billions of tax dollars are now saved because direct subsidies have been lowered in favor of crop insurance, propane and other fuel companies were also benefited. This preserves jobs and broadens the tax base in farming areas.

Interestingly, while the bill was passed in a bi-partisan vote, and rural Republican states were the biggest beneficiaries of it, not one Republican showed up for the signing ceremony. As always, Republicans are the principle beneficiaries of President Obama's efforts but they decline to thank him for his work on their behalf. Naturally the controlled right wing media fails to point that out.

 

[elliott95]

Socialism in western countries is 'progressive'.

Baby steps, adding the heat to the pot in such small increments, that by the time the frog might start to notice the heat, the Frenchmen are already feasting on Cuisse de Grenouille.

 

[mafwons]

Socialism in the US is used as a scare tactic by the 1%, socialism elsewhere is people for the people.

Americans need a change of heart and mind before they are able to move forward and join the rest of the world, America is like a spoilt young child in many respects, plenty of toys but can't decide which one to play with.
Only a few in the US enjoy the benefits the U.S. has to offer, if you have plenty it's the best in the world, if you have nothing it's the worst, you live under a bridge and no one cares.

We have some very nice bridges here, and someone does care if a cop sees you sleeping under the bridge youcare likely to get beaten or worse.

 

[mafwons]

I never understood the socialism accusations. Obama isn't a socialist. He's Bush 2.0.

He is Regan with big ears and a dumb look, oh yeah dubya had that too.

 

[mafwons]

Some people just have Obama derangement syndrome, drink the Kool Aid of Republicans, and need to grow up.

The republicans have kool-aid, I'm joining.

 

[mafwons]

Socialism in the U.S. is different from Socialism described elsewhere. The Socialism that is described here in the U.S. is more descriptive of state capitalism (Which is what the USSR was), where people who run the businesses are also government officials. Examples would include Monsanto's VP becoming a member of the FDA, or the treasury/bankster relationship (Timothy Geithner) The requirement to purchase healthcare from health insurance businesses is also an example of state capitalism.

Socialism is really democracy-- the workers and all those affected by the industry vote on what course the business should take. No corporation should ever be considered a person, and no business should ever own property. Socalists believe in private ownership of property such as homes, and there are Christian Socialists that believe that you owning your own land is a keystone to the entire socialist system.

I'm more of a Christian Communist (I was a Conservative for most of my life until I became 28) where I believe that all of us within my community should divide our spoils so that none of us should go wanting. I don't agree with Marx's atheism because I believe a spiritual relationship with God is essential, as we are all spiritual creatures, but that because we all part of God nothing really ever belongs to us because it belongs to God. I believe I must help the poor and sell my treasures to help all those in need. I personally don't care that I might get treasures in heaven, and even if I did I would most likely distribute them evenly amongst the people, and toss my crown at the feet of Jesus.

Nope -- I saw that in '08. I threw my vote away.

Money is the proplem so some form of a communal living setup between people of a given location, the proplem people, especially "Christians" have with that is greed, the utter worship of money. John Locke (whose ideas were not necessarily all good, but some that were, happen to be excellent) basically said that whatever a man put his labor to that was not wasteful was rightfully his and was a blessing to society, until the advent of money in a given society, then we encounter men who labour for paper and use it to buy the fruits of their labor at interest (not entirely Locke but his idea remains intact throughtout). So we have a money problem here in America.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I never understood the socialism accusations. Obama isn't a socialist. He's Bush 2.0.

Correct.

While there are a few who do feel he's a full-blown socialist (and I'm not sure why), the majority of his opposition simply feels that he's trying to socialize certain things that they disapprove of...the primary ones being healthcare, and the proposed tax increases on the ultra-rich.

...and for the healthcare topic, I can understand their concern. We have some of the unhealthiest people in the world living here unfortunately, and I certainly feel like that would be unfair to make those of us healthy folks pay for their bad decisions. It'd be sort of like saying that "you all have to chip into a group auto policy together to help offset the costs for the town drunk since he's going to crash his car 3-4 times a year".

I also agree with your statement about Bush 2.0. If folks recall, Bush's battle cry during the earlier party of his presidency was "Compassionate Conservatism"...for which his plan was to use government aid to fund initiatives to increase minority home ownership (which he did do)...that certainly could be considered a "socialist" idea...in fact, if it were Obama doing that, I'm sure many would've already made that claim.

 

[SteveNZ]

Sounds like a great loving country to live in, a Christian caring country if ever I heard of one! You could even say it is an evolutionary country because you either survive or die, I will take an atheist country any day over a religious country because atheists have more love and compassion and they look out for of each other more.

Hi Fancy123,
Do you really believe those statements? Please share some examples of God fearing countries who hurt the poor.

 

[HonestTruth]

Let Us Now Praise Obama's Economic Policies | Mother Jones

"By the party’s own standards, Obama is succeeding beautifully. They established the GOP benchmarks and now the Democratic president is the one meeting, and in some cases exceeding, the Republicans’ goals."

The downside of all this is that in the past Democrats haven't promoted their own economic policies plainly enough to get credit now that the economy has finally turned around.

Democrats should be louder about demanding more credit for all of this.

THANK YOU MR OBAMA!

 

[mafwons]

Hi Fancy123,
Do you really believe those statements? Please share some examples of God fearing countries who hurt the poor.

A country is not able to feel emotion, unless you mean in a collective sort of way, but in either case there are no countries that fear God.

 

[Joykins]

I never understood the socialism accusations. Obama isn't a socialist. He's Bush 2.0.

He also did what the 2012 Republican nominees promised.

Let Us Now Praise Obama's Economic Policies | Mother Jones

The Romney Standard: Mitt Romney said during the 2012 campaign that if Americans elect him, he’d get the unemployment rate down to 6% by 2016. Obama won anyway and the unemployment rate dropped below 6% two years faster.

The Gingrich Standard: Newt Gingrich said during the 2012 campaign that if Americans re-elected the president, gas prices would reach $10 per gallon, while Gingrich would push gas down to $2.50 a gallon. As of this morning, the national average at the pump is a little under $2.38.

The Pawlenty Standard: Tim Pawlenty said trillions of dollars in tax breaks would boost economic growth to 5% GDP. Obama actually raised taxes on the wealthy and GDP growth reached 5% anyway.

** That's what I get for blind-posting, I see HonestTruth has beat me to it

 

[elliott95]

Obama.

The Bush that Democrats have all fallen in love with.

 

[GarfieldJL]

Obama.

The Bush that Democrats have all fallen in love with.

I really wish people would stop insulting George Bush...

Obama does have socialist tendencies, while Wall Street is seeing record highs, it's primarily because the Fed is propping it up. He's added more and more government control over various parts of the economy.

Obama's cronies are getting richer, cause he rewards his backers.

In any event, the best way to describe Obama would be a typical Chicago Politician.

 

[elliott95]

I really wish people would stop insulting George Bush...

Obama does have socialist tendencies, while Wall Street is seeing record highs, it's primarily because the Fed is propping it up. He's added more and more government control over various parts of the economy.

Obama's cronies are getting richer, cause he rewards his backers.

In any event, the best way to describe Obama would be a typical Chicago Politician.

Typical Chicago politician is probably the best summary of what kind of president he has been.

I don't think that he is anything like Bush, frankly. It is an amusing argument to see Democrats, who hated Bush so passionately, are now saying that Obama is just like Bush.
He would have to be the Bush that Democrats love then.


And yes, to the extent that his politics are anything more than the typical Chicago politics of seizing power by any expedient method, his tendencies are toward bigger government, and more government control over the economy.

 

[HonestTruth]

I really wish people would stop insulting George Bush...

That really is a funny line because Obama has been insulted here a thousand times worse by the right wing critics.

 

[HonestTruth]

Stop insulting Obama!

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Stop insulting Obama!

Stop being a blind Obama fan-boy!


Don't get me wrong, I don't take issue with the fact that you like the president, everyone has a right to like or dislike anyone they choose...however, your posts often display this sort of unbreakable loyalty to the guy to the degree that you give him personal credit for every little positive thing that happens in government and act as if the guy is your close personal friend...what, did he & the Mrs. invite you to a white house BBQ or something?


Headline: The sky was blue today
Typical HonestTruth Response: "Let us all be grateful to Obama for his policies that have allowed the weather to be nice. Thank God for Obama and the patriots who voted for him "

I mean c'mon...nobody can have that big of a man-crush can they? I've often wondered if "HonestTruth" is a real person, or if it's just a satirical character being played by someone just to mess with all of us.

"Hey Bill, come check this out...I'm doing that hardcore democrat character on the internet again to mess with these people!"

 

[Thunder Peel]

Stop being a blind Obama fan-boy!


Don't get me wrong, I don't take issue with the fact that you like the president, everyone has a right to like or dislike anyone they choose...however, your posts often display this sort of unbreakable loyalty to the guy to the degree that you give him personal credit for every little positive thing that happens in government and act as if the guy is your close personal friend...what, did he & the Mrs. invite you to a white house BBQ or something?


Headline: The sky was blue today
Typical HonestTruth Response: "Let us all be grateful to Obama for his policies that have allowed the weather to be nice. Thank God for Obama and the patriots who voted for him "

I mean c'mon...nobody can have that big of a man-crush can they? I've often wondered if "HonestTruth" is a real person, or if it's just a satirical character being played by someone just to mess with all of us.

"Hey Bill, come check this out...I'm doing that hardcore democrat character on the internet again to mess with these people!"

This made me laugh out loud.

It never ceases to amaze me at the amount of people who treat Obama as some sort of god among men who can do no wrong and should be praised endlessly for anything. At least Republicans will hold their leaders accountable and aren't afraid to criticize those who fail to show leadership, which is more than I can say for most Democrats.

 

[TerranceL]

Do you mean in the way republicans held Bush accountable for the state the country was in when he left office?

What you think he had such a low approval rating because of only democrats?

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

What you think he had such a low approval rating because of only democrats?

No, but Republicans did tend to give him much higher rates of support than the public in general. Even at his low point in terms of approval, he had a majority of Republican support at 55%, and tended to hover between 60-70% (much higher prior to 2006). The Republican Party held him accountable for his mistakes, but not to an extent that would have been meaningful. If everyone in the country had been a Republican, he would have theoretically been re-elected even at the low point in his popularity. Most of his disapproval came from Democrats and Independents, whose disdain for him was closer to the average in the second case, and as low as 3% in the second case. Independents were apparently driving the trend for the most part.