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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

"It's over, we won."

EdwinWillers

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Or offended at "Season's Greetings", "Happy Holidays" and "Winter Festivities".
In truth though Daisy, the "offense" (if it can be legitimately called that) has nothing to do with the use of any of those. It comes from the much broader cultural attack that's been waged against Christianity in general for a number of decades now (well, ever since day 1).

Personally, I don't think we, as Christians, have any right per se to be "offended" when our faith is being attacked. It is, after all, not we who are being attacked (though it be directed at us), but Christ Himself who is the brunt of such efforts to discredit Him because of who and what He is, and because of what He's done. Moreover, He's told us how we ought to respond under such attacks - and taking "offense" isn't it - quite the opposite, truthfully.

For a period of time there Christianity enjoyed far greater popularity in our culture than it does in today's - and far more people embraced it (in whole or in part) than do today. Such popularity has been steadily eroding though; we see it on practically every front - be it prayer in schools, creationism, the display of the 10 Commandments in our public spaces, our social, political, and philosophical mores, and even in celebrations like Easter and Christmas. The rate of the erosion has been particularly frightening for many of us who have lived long enough to see how marked the changes have been in just half a century's time. That's rapid enough of a change to catch many truly off guard.

We can't argue anymore on the basis of Christian mores - there are too few who accept them, let alone even acknowledge them in today's culture. Many in fact openly disdain and/or deny them. The "golden age" - if it ever was that, of Christianity in our culture is gone - and so we greet one another at this time of the year with "Happy Holidays" and "Season's Greetings" - purposefully and willfully avoiding the [now] culturally unacceptable "Merry Christmas."

Fortunately though, Christ remains who He is and what He is - and we still remain blessed, albeit for awhile, with the freedom in our culture to remember Him at this time of the year as the one who:

Created all things
Is before all things
Is the image of the invisible God
Abides forever
Is with us always
Knows us
Was born of a virgin
Has redeemed us
Is without sin
Cleanses us from our sin
Gives us peace
Gives us joy
Reveals the Father
Offered Himself up, on our behalf
Was crucified, executed on the cross
Was buried
Was raised again
Appeared to over 500 people over many weeks, individually and in groups
Ate with them
Destroyed death
Rendered the devil powerless
Sits now at the Father's right hand
Is the only mediator between God and us
Will judge the world in righteousness
Will come again, for us.

So while it may hurt when we greet someone with "Merry Christmas" at this time of the year, and they respond intentionally with "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" - for whatever reason - we shouldn't be offended, per se, but instead reminded why He came in the first place, thankful we at least have responded to His call, prayerful we might be of use to Him in His calling of those who have not yet received His grace and gift of eternal salvation, and mindful at this time of the year of what His incarnation, and subsequent life, death, burial, and resurrection means (or portends) for all humanity.

Merry Christmas!
 
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MachZer0

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In truth though Daisy, the "offense" (if it can be legitimately called that) has nothing to do with the use of any of those. It comes from the much broader cultural attack that's been waged against Christianity in general for a number of decades now (well, ever since day 1).

Personally, I don't think we, as Christians, have any right per se to be "offended" when our faith is being attacked. It is, after all, not we who are being attacked (though it be directed at us), but Christ Himself who is the brunt of such efforts to discredit Him because of who and what He is, and because of what He's done. Moreover, He's told us how we ought to respond under such attacks - and taking "offense" isn't it - quite the opposite, truthfully.

For a period of time there Christianity enjoyed far greater popularity in our culture than it does in today's - and far more people embraced it (in whole or in part) than do today. Such popularity has been steadily eroding though; we see it on practically every front - be it prayer in schools, creationism, the display of the 10 Commandments in our public spaces, our social, political, and philosophical mores, and even in celebrations like Easter and Christmas. The rate of the erosion has been particularly frightening for many of us who have lived long enough to see how marked the changes have been in just half a century's time. That's rapid enough of a change to catch many truly off guard.

We can't argue anymore on the basis of Christian mores - there are too few who accept them, let alone even acknowledge them in today's culture. Many in fact openly disdain and/or deny them. The "golden age" - if it ever was that, of Christianity in our culture is gone - and so we greet one another at this time of the year with "Happy Holidays" and "Season's Greetings" - purposefully and willfully avoiding the [now] culturally unacceptable "Merry Christmas."

Fortunately though, Christ remains who He is and what He is - and we still remain blessed, albeit for awhile, with the freedom in our culture to remember Him at this time of the year as the one who:

Created all things
Is before all things
Is the image of the invisible God
Abides forever
Is with us always
Knows us
Was born of a virgin
Has redeemed us
Is without sin
Cleanses us from our sin
Gives us peace
Gives us joy
Reveals the Father
Offered Himself up, on our behalf
Was crucified, executed on the cross
Was buried
Was raised again
Appeared to over 500 people over many weeks, individually and in groups
Ate with them
Destroyed death
Rendered the devil powerless
Sits now at the Father's right hand
Is the only mediator between God and us
Will judge the world in righteousness
Will come again, for us.

So while it may hurt when we greet someone with "Merry Christmas" at this time of the year, and they respond intentionally with "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" - for whatever reason - we shouldn't be offended, per se, but instead reminded why He came in the first place, thankful we at least have responded to His call, prayerful we might be of use to Him in His calling of those who have not yet received His grace and gift of eternal salvation, and mindful at this time of the year of what His incarnation, and subsequent life, death, burial, and resurrection means (or portends) for all humanity.

Merry Christmas!

There's a head in the sand mentality regarding the War on Christmas as well as the deflection away from reality. I don't know anybody who objects to the Happy Holidays greeting but rather the objection is to be prohibited from saying Merry Christmas
 
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kermit

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And what great mysteries about the tides have you so baffled, Mach?
We fully understand the tides as the affects of gravity.

In truth, though, the source of gravity a mystery to science. Some think that it's it merely due to the warping of space-time by matter. Others think that is force in one of the other dimensions of our universe having an affect on the 3 space dimension that we can perceive.

Where Bill gets it wrong is that matters of faith are unsolvable, while the mysteries of the physical universe are all inherently solvable. As a Catholic, he should know very well that the Vatican, while they believe that God is responsible for everything, doesn't default to "God did it" when it come to the mysteries of the universe. In fact, many of the leading theoretical physicists are Catholic clergy.
 
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Non sequitur

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There's a head in the sand mentality regarding the War on Christmas as well as the deflection away from reality. I don't know anybody who objects to the Happy Holidays greeting but rather the objection is to be prohibited from saying Merry Christmas

How is this a War on Christmas?

Wouldn't it be Scuffle in Regards to Businesses Using Inclusive Language?
 
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Cute Tink

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There's a head in the sand mentality regarding the War on Christmas as well as the deflection away from reality. I don't know anybody who objects to the Happy Holidays greeting but rather the objection is to be prohibited from saying Merry Christmas

What's the issue with a business deciding how it was going to handle employees greeting customers?

I thought you were all for businesses doing things how they wanted.
 
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MachZer0

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What's the issue with a business deciding how it was going to handle employees greeting customers?

I thought you were all for businesses doing things how they wanted.
I didn't say anything about busineses
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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Do people tell you happy 4th of july throughout the month of june? It is dumb to say merry christmas on any day other than christmas. Happy holidays works for me until it is christmas, because I don't know when all these other holidays come and go, like kwanza or hannukah.
 
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MachZer0

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You mean government employees who are Constitutionally prevented from favoring one religion over others?
There's no such thing. Thus we're seeing the impetus behind the War on Christmas, a mistaken understanding of the Constitution
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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There's no such thing. Thus we're seeing the impetus behind the War on Christmas, a mistaken understanding of the Constitution

War on Christmas? What are you talking about? Explain.
 
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Cute Tink

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There's no such thing. Thus we're seeing the impetus behind the War on Christmas, a mistaken understanding of the Constitution

I'm not sure how a "mistaken" understanding of the Constitution leads to the non-existent War on Christmas. :confused:

Maybe it's because those who don't understand the Constitution and case law over the years have led people to believe they have a right to hear people say "Merry Christmas"?
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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Or offended at "Season's Greetings", "Happy Holidays" and "Winter Festivities".

If I put one of these greetings on my face book. I would probably lose a bunch of my face book friends. I keep getting Share if you believe it's Merry Christmas not Happy Holidays. I just ignore since I don't care which one it is.
 
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