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the miracle of forgiveness by w kimball??
- Thread starter joneysd
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I couldn't agree more...
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
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James 2 notes that faith alone is dead faith, and that faith needs to be partnered with actions.
Otherwise, we have situations like what James warned about in which people talk a good game about being "saved" but fail to live in a Christ-like fashion. It is this notion - that words alone are sufficient - that Kimball was likely condemning.
Otherwise, we have situations like what James warned about in which people talk a good game about being "saved" but fail to live in a Christ-like fashion. It is this notion - that words alone are sufficient - that Kimball was likely condemning.
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You have not provided any text in the Bible which states that salvation by grace alone came from Satan. That was the OP, if I am not mistaken.
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I gave you a verse from God which said that Faith alone will not save you.
I would take it as a given then, that anything which proclaims the exact opposite of God's word, must come from Satan.
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again it does not say that Grace alone is from satan, where and how could God's grace be from satan...
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He is Risen 72
Colossians 2:14 The Law is nailed to the Cross!!
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yes I know what you mean, smoke and mirrors, straight denial, it was just him saying it not the church, you are taking it out of context, it's always something else than what is so clearly there...
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is this a different Kimball from Helen Mar Kimball, a young bride of J Smith's?
I'm sorry -- I'm not up on the other Kimball - "an LDS leader"...
anyway -- this "worksy" salvation is kinda makin me gag
I'm sorry -- I'm not up on the other Kimball - "an LDS leader"...
anyway -- this "worksy" salvation is kinda makin me gag
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I agree that the mormons do major on self righteousness for salvation, a very dangerous and demanding place, when you consider all fall short of the mark...
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Using your logic, one must conclude that Mr. Kimball's statement which was quoted in the OP, must be from Satan because it flatly contradicts Ephesians 2:8-10.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
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The FUGITIVE was Dr Richard Kimble -- not spelled same as this...
"For by WORKS are ye saved, not by Faith, lest any man might enter the loftiest Temple"
oolah-boolah, AC/DC, IV:23i
"For by WORKS are ye saved, not by Faith, lest any man might enter the loftiest Temple"
oolah-boolah, AC/DC, IV:23i
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Actually, Mr Kimball was not quoted in the OP, that quote is off an AntiMormon site.
The real quote is talking about Faith Alone. Although there is not much difference between Modern Christianity's understanding of "Faith Alone" and "Grace Alone"
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I see. I was not aware of that. It seemed, however, that a strong defense of the statement was made by the LDS posters on this thread. Do you agree with the crux of the statement that the doctrine of salvation by grace alone is from Satan?
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Yes!
As understood by Modern Christians such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who coined the phrase "Cheap Grace to represent the terms "Free Grace" and "Grace Alone"
“Cheap grace is the grace we bestow on ourselves. Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession...Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.” Dietrich Bonhoeffer
As I already stated... In today's Christianity there is little difference between Grace Alone, Free Grace, and Faith Alone.
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So, am I correct in thinking that you believe that God's offer of salvation based upon His grace alone is, actually, a lie from Satan?
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Hebrews 5: 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
To whom is eternal salvation given?
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
To whom is eternal salvation given?
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Not at all...
It's not the offer which is the lie... As I believe that it is only by Grace we are saved. It's when man have taken that gift and cheapens it by casting it unto the swine.
Christ can do as He wills, as He has become the finisher of or salvation; and He has already expressed His will, in telling us that He wants us to be like Him. That's because He wants us to experience the Joy and happiness He has. He has told us that It is only when we are like Him and have the same attributes He has, that we will be able to experience this ultimate joy and happiness.
To reach that point, Christ has told us that it requires sacrifice from us, it requires us to pick up our cross and do as He did in love of God and our fellow men. Yet we can not comprehend that type of love without first learning Charity, sacrifice, selflessness, patience, endurance, fortitude, humility, long suffering, forgiveness...
Most of these are only are realized and understood through hard work, service, repentance, fasting, prayer and obedience.
The lie from Satan is that one can bypass all of these, and still be prepared to meet our Master.
It's really not that good works are required, it's that without them, Grace is rendered useless and becomes a "useless Grace" or "useless faith". That type of Grace does not have the power to change us at all.
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Do you really believe that it is only by grace that we are saved or that we are saved by God's grace plus our works which are necessary to prove the effectiveness of His grace? Who are we impressing with our works? Is it God who knows all things or people who can only see our outer lives?
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