HitchSlap
PROUDLY PRIMATE
I'd recommend you read this, but I doubt you would.
Evolution of plants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The role of vegetation in creationism
- Thread starter ByTheSpirit
- Start date
I'd recommend you read this, but I doubt you would.
Evolution of plants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
PsychoSarah
Chaotic Neutral
Make it carnivorous plants and the curiosity might tempt them to read it. I love my "scary abominations of nature".
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EternalDragon
Counselor
Well, we start with the presupposition that an intelligent designer created everything. Not the presupposition that nature produced everything through unguided, unintelligent processes.
Which I would describe as "right".
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Why would it be right to assume something without evidence?
As I'm sure any scientist would tell you, as soon as there is evidence for God they'll accept it. At the moment there is no scientific evidence for God, any more than there is for the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. I'm not denigrating God in the comparison, merely saying that in terms of scientific evidence they are on the same level.
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EternalDragon
Counselor
There is no evidence for everything coming from nothing either. Nor is there evidence for apes turning into men, etc, etc.
Whether you reject the biblical writings or not, they are evidence.
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EternalDragon
Counselor
They just rename it "descent with modification" so as to make it more believable.
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PsychoSarah
Chaotic Neutral
You do realize that scientists don't start out with either presupposition, right?
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EternalDragon
Counselor
If you don't start out with one, you can't make any concise conclusions
because you have no starting point of reference.
If I ask you for driving directions to Dallas, Texas, you would need to know where I am starting from.
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onlybygrace-
Um, your question shows that you have almost no understanding of what evolution is about. That's OK, we all have limited knowledge. However, to claim that evolution is impossible when you don't understand it only makes us Christians look really bad. To those with even a rudimentary knowledge of evolution, you question is like asking "how could anyone believe that cars can work when water won't burn as a fuel?".
For your question, first understand that the Big Bang produced only hydrogen and some helium - seeds or anything. The H and He formed stars, which by nucleosynthesis formed heavier elements, which then formed solar systems & planets. From there, life arose and slowly evolved into plants, and only later into plants with seeds (please see the links referenced earlier, and google stuff like "nucleosynthesis").
I know there are a lot of creationists out there, with websites and preachers decrying evolution as the spawn of the pit of hell.
However, there are also millions of Christians who see evolution as perfectly compatible with Christianity. Indeed, the majority of Evolution supporters in the united states are Christians. Similarly, the work of discovering evolution has mostly been done by scientists (of many fields) who are Christian.
I know what it is like to be convinced of something, and I'm sure you've heard many other Christians say that evolution is evil for a long time. However, please take the time to look into both sides with an open mind.
One place to start with examining the evidence for evolution is at www.talkorigins.org. There are plenty of others - including any high-school or college level biology class.
Important things to realize (and check these out, don't just take my word for it) are:
Um, your question shows that you have almost no understanding of what evolution is about. That's OK, we all have limited knowledge. However, to claim that evolution is impossible when you don't understand it only makes us Christians look really bad. To those with even a rudimentary knowledge of evolution, you question is like asking "how could anyone believe that cars can work when water won't burn as a fuel?".
For your question, first understand that the Big Bang produced only hydrogen and some helium - seeds or anything. The H and He formed stars, which by nucleosynthesis formed heavier elements, which then formed solar systems & planets. From there, life arose and slowly evolved into plants, and only later into plants with seeds (please see the links referenced earlier, and google stuff like "nucleosynthesis").
I know there are a lot of creationists out there, with websites and preachers decrying evolution as the spawn of the pit of hell.
However, there are also millions of Christians who see evolution as perfectly compatible with Christianity. Indeed, the majority of Evolution supporters in the united states are Christians. Similarly, the work of discovering evolution has mostly been done by scientists (of many fields) who are Christian.
I know what it is like to be convinced of something, and I'm sure you've heard many other Christians say that evolution is evil for a long time. However, please take the time to look into both sides with an open mind.
One place to start with examining the evidence for evolution is at www.talkorigins.org. There are plenty of others - including any high-school or college level biology class.
Important things to realize (and check these out, don't just take my word for it) are:
- Practically all scientists support evolution, and have for decades. It's simply not a controversy. While there is disagreement about minor points (such as whether ambulocetus was 70% vs. 80% aquatic), the basics are agreed upon. Compare any creationist "list" with Project Steve, times 100.
- The evidence for evolution includes all kinds of stuff, not just fossils. DNA tests alone would be enough to prove evolution beyond a shadow of a doubt, even if there were no fossils. Others are phylogeny, biogeography, ontogeny, pathology, agriculture, and many others.
- There are tons of excellent series of clearly transitional fossils. The horse, whale, mammal, fish to amphibian, amphibian to reptile and many others series are so clear that creationists generally just avoid them, and don't deny that they are clear.
- Creationists don't agree on their basics. You can see this from OEC websites. Those creationists say the earth is billions (>2,000,000,000) of years old, while most creationists say it is about 6,000 years old.
- Geologists (including thousands of Christians) worldwide overwhelmingly reject the idea of a young earth and a global flood, based on evidence. They have agreed on this for over 150 years.
- Creationists rely almost solely on a handful of deceptive tactics. These include moving the goalposts, being evasive/misleading (AiG does that alot), quote mining (which you’ve no doubt seen – google it), ignoring/hiding evidence (very common), and less often, outright fraud.
- The majority of Christians worldwide are in churches that accept evolution. Evolution is as firmly proven as the existence of the Civil War, and the harder fundamentalists fight against it, the more damage they will do to Christianity, by making people think the Christianity is deception.
- Take your time. There is no time limit to decide on evolution, and it will take time to test all of the statements above.
In Christ-
Papias
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Bad analogy as you've already decided where you need the evidence to lead you.
Using your driving analogy correctly a scientist has a starting point but no defined destination. They find a list of directions and see where that leads them.
Further down the road (pun intended) they may say "OK, I'm in Seattle, Washington now. The directions I have appear to indicate the destination is Dallas, Texas. Hey, peers, have I read the directions correctly? Can anyone find a problem with my conclusion?"
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EternalDragon
Counselor
Exactly. The scientist that allows only naturalistic explanations or starts with the premise has already decided where the evidence will lead them.
PsychoSarah: No need to invoke any deities. The God of the bible is a living, intelligent entity.
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Is doing science the way it's supposed to be done. Supernatural explanations can't be tested for and aren't science. Why expect scientists to deal with something that, by definition, they can't deal with?
Says you.
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