Ministers threatened with jail and thousands in fines for refusing to marry gays

[AirPo]

Except we're dealing with ordained pastors here, something your side is failing to take into account.

Except we're dealing with a public business here, something "your side" is failing to take into account.

 

[AirPo]

Incorrect.

The city, according to the legal filings, imposed both fines and incarceration as penalties for non-compliance with its new ordinance.

"Imposed" implies that it has already happened. When did the city impose these fines?

 

[abysmul]

Except we're dealing with a public business here, something "your side" is failing to take into account.

You know something, I can't recall any passages out of the Bible where Christians were told to go open up businesses to marry people.

 

[NightHawkeye]

"Imposed" implies that it has already happened. When did the city impose these fines?

If I'm not mistaken, that would be when the city passed its ordinance and penalties.

Perhaps one of the forum's legal eagles can offer further clarification though.

 

[elliott95]

People who run businesses are now assumed to have forfeited their rights, including their right to conscience.

They are being bullied.
Disagree?
Well bully for you.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Hi, Artemis.

Let's consider the definition of bullying to see if the municipality's actions qualify: Bullying - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion ...​

​

Yep, the municipality is employing the threat of fines and jail time to coerce.

... to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively dominate others.​

​

Was the municipality intending to intimidate?

Given the threat of jail time and thousands of dollars in fines, the answer is an unqualified yes.

Perhaps you disagree, but by definition the municipality's actions appear to be a clear case of bullying.

It's not a matter of disagreement, but calm rationality in regards to the facts of the matter. No, this couple is most certainly not being bullied by any definition or reasonable interpretation of the term, and it's histrionic to state that they are.

 

[AirPo]

If I'm not mistaken, that would be when the city passed its ordinance and penalties.



Perhaps one of the forum's legal eagles can offer further clarification though.

So it didn't happen then.

 

[NightHawkeye]

So it didn't happen then.

Your rationale?

 

[NightHawkeye]

It's not a matter of disagreement, but calm rationality in regards to the facts of the matter. No, this couple is most certainly not being bullied by any definition or reasonable interpretation of the term, and it's histrionic to state that they are.

Then it would be fair to say that segregation isn't bullying either.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Christ confirmed every word in the Old Testament which condemns homosexual behavior. In His own words, every jot and tittle.

Oh, then does that mean that Christ also confirmed it's acceptable for fathers to offer up their virgin daughters to be gang raped as detailed in Genesis 19:4-8?

Have you studied the historical context of Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 and the original language of the verses? Look at 1 King 14:24 and Deuteronomy 23:17-18 for hints. They're not about two men (or two women) having an affectionate, genuinely consensual relationship with one another. Paul's condemnation of same-gender relationships in Romans were in regards to common practices at the time that are diametrically different than gay marriage, such as ritualized sexual encounters tied to pagan worship and idolatry, and pederasty (the practice of grown men taking on pubescent boys as students and lovers).

But since you think Jesus agreed to every dotted i and crossed t of the Old Testament, what about the multitude of verses not only allowing slavery, but permitting masters to beat their slaves so long as the slaves don't die within two days of that beating? Jesus is totally cool with that, according to you? I mean, if Jesus really did confirm every word in the OT, then He must think slavery, incest, stoning rebellious sons, and other nefariousness is permissible. Or, does He just treat verses the same way this couple did and pick and choose which ones he liked as if they were proffered up for selection at a smorgasbord?

Could you kindly show me a single verse where homosexuality as it is applicable to two consenting adults who want to be in an exclusive, loving, mutually beneficial relationship such as with a gay marriage is prohibited? You can't.
The condemnations of same-sex intimacy in the Bible are pertaining to gang-rape, temple prostitution, idolatry, and pederasty, all of which are as unrelated to gay marriage as they are to marriage between two heterosexuals.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Then it would be fair to say that segregation isn't bullying either.

Nope, that would be more melodramatic manipulation of the facts.

 

[bhsmte]

Nope, that would be more melodramatic manipulation of the facts.

And where would this board be, without it's fair share of melodrama?

 

[AirPo]

Your rationale?

Reality.

Passing an ordinance is not imposing a fine.

For instance, there is a side street I used to park on. The neighbors got the town to make it a no parking zone. I didn't realize that until I got a ticket. The fine was not imposed when the town passed the ordinance. It was imposed when I parked there.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Reality.

Passing an ordinance is not imposing a fine.

For instance, there is a side street I used to park on. The neighbors got the town to make it a no parking zone. I didn't realize that until I got a ticket. The fine was not imposed when the town passed the ordinance. It was imposed when I parked there.

OK.

So, you're not disagreeing with the FACT that the municipality has the stated fine and incarceration penalties?

 

[bhsmte]

OK.

So, you're not disagreeing with the FACT that the municipality has the stated fine and incarceration penalties?

How else do laws have any teeth, if there are no consequences to them?

And, many fairly minor crimes have jail time as a possible consequence and it is rarely used.

 

[AirPo]

OK.

So, you're not disagreeing with the FACT that the municipality has the stated fine and incarceration penalties?

Well I'm glad you understood my post and were able to reiterate it properly.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

And where would this board be, without it's fair share of melodrama?

True. I can see why this place is a favorite for FSTDT. I go to an all-girls secondary school, and there is far more juvenile drama queen-esque behavior here than there. It does make things entertaining..........sometimes, in small doses. Mainly it just makes me grateful that all I have to do is close a window on my iPad, and poof - all of this drama is no longer in my life.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Except we're dealing with ordained pastors here, something your side is failing to take into account.

I'm an ordained pastor, Garfield. Why don't you tell me which laws I am specifically exempt from?

 

[bhsmte]

True. I can see why this place is a favorite for FSTDT. I go to an all-girls secondary school, and there is far more juvenile drama queen-esque behavior here than there. It does make things entertaining..........sometimes, in small doses. Mainly it just makes me grateful that all I have to do is close a window on my iPad, and poof - all of this drama is no longer in my life.

This site is better than reality TV.

 

[Belk]

This site is better than reality TV.

Watching plaster dry is better then reality TV.