The death of the Virgin in RCC imagery

[bbbbbbb]

The problem with your analogy is that the story of Mary's Assumption has been told for many centuries (since at least 400 AD) and the Church remembers.

What evidence do you have for that? There were all manner of heretical myths circulating during the early centuries of Christianity. The Church had to deal with them fairly early on. The absence of any record of a belief is hardly proof positive of its existence.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I am sure there are theologians that place importance on it. But the Church does not.

This strikes me as peculiar in light of all the enormous interest in the Assumption, especially in the late Middle Ages. At that time there was a very highly refined theology about it, including various implications of her death. In later centuries her death was downplayed to the point where she finished the course of her life and went directly to heaven.

 

[bbbbbbb]

TBH, I haven't actually followed our dear friend and brother, LLOJ's post that were maybe theological. Has he had many? I've seen his posts in agreement with folks, and also his posting of funny cartoons and such. He doesn't seem to be too involved in theology, and maybe that's the point you're trying to make here.

Yes, that is part of my point. Although he shows scant interest in theology per se, he has a keen interest in the Bible and has a number of threads on Biblical interpretation and translation. I should, however, let him speak for himself.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Double post.......



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[Kepha]

What evidence do you have for that? There were all manner of heretical myths circulating during the early centuries of Christianity.

It's more going on faith that the Holy Spirit preserved this truth within the confines of Tradition even if there are some bad traditions mixed in at the time that needed to be weeded out. Kind of like the lack of 'evidence' you have for believing the NT 400 years prior to the Latin Vulgate being written, which I believe is the oldest copy of the NT Scriptures available, hadn't changed. You've no copy to prove it, yet you go by Tradition to have copied it down correctly and passed on from church to church with the aid of the Holy Spirit, even when the heretical books were mixed with it, in different churches.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Even Martin Luther said that she is in Heaven (and he believed in soul sleep for everyone else) -- Lutherans celebrate Mary on Aug 15, the same day as we (Catholics/Orthodox) celebrate her Dormition/Assumption.

Sorry, I got to this thread late, but I could not let this go...

You are correct about Mary in Heaven; however you must be taking Luther our of context (or confusing us with Jews and Christadelphians); no "soul sleep"; as with the good thief, when the faithful die, their souls are with the Lord in Heaven; our mortal bodies "sleep" until the resurrection on the last day, when our souls will be reunited with or perfect, immortal bodies!

Mary's Assumption is adiaphpra, and we are free to hold or disregard this "pious opinion". That being said, there is some very early writings which speak of the discovery of Mary's empty tomb.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by PilgrimToChrist

Even Martin Luther said that she is in Heaven (and he believed in soul sleep for everyone else) -- Lutherans celebrate Mary on Aug 15, the same day as we (Catholics/Orthodox) celebrate her Dormition/Assumption
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Sorry, I got to this thread late, but I could not let this go...

You are correct about Mary in Heaven; however you must be taking Luther our of context (or confusing us with Jews and Christadelphians); no "soul sleep"; as with the good thief, when the faithful die, their souls are with the Lord in Heaven; our mortal bodies "sleep" until the resurrection on the last day, when our souls will be reunited with or perfect, immortal bodies!

Mary's Assumption is adiaphpra, and we are free to hold or disregard this "pious opinion". That being said, there is some very early writings which speak of the discovery of Mary's empty tomb.

So in essence, both body and soul aren't "assumed". Interesting.


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[MarkRohfrietsch]

So in essence, both body and soul aren't "assumed". Interesting.


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I don't think much of bringing back threads that are two years old; but think about it. If Mary's dead body was assumed into heaven, her soul would already be there. Were she assumed without dying; body and soul would be assumed at the same time.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Dorothea

TBH, I haven't actually followed our dear friend and brother, LLOJ's post that were maybe theological. Has he had many? I've seen his posts in agreement with folks, and also his posting of funny cartoons and such. He doesn't seem to be too involved in theology, and maybe that's the point you're trying to make here.
​

Yes, that is part of my point. Although he shows scant interest in theology per se, he has a keen interest in the Bible and has a number of threads on Biblical interpretation and translation.
I should, however, let him speak for himself.

I am too bashful.....


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[bbbbbbb]

I am too bashful.....


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But not too bashful to revive my thread.

 

[Targaryen]

Redundancy is not contrary to bashfulness though. It's just being redundant.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Redundancy is not contrary to bashfulness though. It's just being redundant.

Quite true.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

I am too bashful.....

​

But not too bashful to revive my thread.

Art thou disappointed?


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[LittleLambofJesus]

Alot of Catholics believed She died before being Assumed. Not sure what the problem is here actually. The Dogma reads that at the end of Her earthly life, Mother Mary was Assumed into Heaven.
It doesn't say She was Assumed into Heaven without seeing death.

Has that always been the view of the RCC? What about the EOC?


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[Ariston]

Alot of Catholics believed She died before being Assumed. Not sure what the problem is here actually. The Dogma reads that at the end of Her earthly life, Mother Mary was Assumed into Heaven. It doesn't say She was Assumed into Heaven without seeing death.

That is my understanding of it too.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That is my understanding of it too.

If she, indeed, died, do you know how long her body was dead before it was revived and taken to heaven?

 

[faroukfarouk]

It's not true that the cult has been abandoned.

If you go for example to places such as Lourdes, France, you will see that the cult is as strong as ever.

What tends to happen, however, is that in countries with a stronger, Protestant background, some of the RC clergy may sometimes play down the Mary cult when seeking to attract people from a non RC background.

This does not alter what Scripture says about the Lord Jesus being the sole Mediator (1 Timothy 2.5).

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

If she, indeed, died, do you know how long her body was dead before it was revived and taken to heaven?

Does this really matter?

Moses was buried some time before his body was "moved".

 

[Targaryen]

Does this really matter?

Moses was buried some time before his body was "moved".

no, it doesn't really matter. But that's the fun about redundancy, you get to spin your wheels cause you want to.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

no, it doesn't really matter. But that's the fun about redundancy, you get to spin your wheels cause you want to.

That's true; spin away!