Why doesn't God do what it would take to get atheists to believe he exists?

[gord44]

I journeyed to and then returned from atheism and agnosticism simply by realizing there is a divine force in the universe and it sent me on a journey to truly understand God. I look at atheism as something that cleansed my old pre-conceived notions of God and allowed me to view the Almighty with eyes that truly wanted to see and ears that truly wanted to hear. It gave me a greater understanding of who Jesus was as well.

I had to put aside the idea of the modern protestant 'Christian' idea of God and tried to rediscover who really God is. I tired of the old explanations of 'God loves you' and 'God wants to spend an eternity with you'. That stuff never really worked for me and I bumbled along in mainline Christianity for years.

I think God needs humans to struggle to find him as that is how God self realizes and begins to heal. If it was easy then it would be a pointless exercise for God.

Once you dive into the deeper meanings in the Hebrew scriptures. Study God's character and how it evolves as time progresses. Discover what the real meaning to the Book of Job is and why truly did God choose to incarnate as Jesus things begin to make a lot of sense.

Peace

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

I journeyed to and then returned from atheism and agnosticism simply by realizing there is a divine force in the universe and it sent me on a journey to truly understand God. I look at atheism as something that cleansed my old pre-conceived notions of God and allowed me to view the Almighty with eyes that truly wanted to see and ears that truly wanted to hear. It gave me a greater understanding of who Jesus was as well.

I had to put aside the idea of the modern protestant 'Christian' idea of God and tried to rediscover who really God is. I tired of the old explanations of 'God loves you' and 'God wants to spend an eternity with you'. That stuff never really worked for me and I bumbled along in mainline Christianity for years.

I think God needs humans to struggle to find him as that is how God self realizes and begins to heal. If it was easy then it would be a pointless exercise for God.

Once you dive into the deeper meanings in the Hebrew scriptures. Study God's character and how it evolves as time progresses. Discover what the real meaning to the Book of Job is and why truly did God choose to incarnate as Jesus things begin to make a lot of sense.

Peace

So then, are you still believing in a Force and if so, what is its substance / how does it provide answers for you / how does it guide your life / and how did it bring an exquisite fine tuned ad hoc Universe into existence from a state of nothingness when the Universe didn't even need to exist ? Does your Force come with a Will and a Mind ? Is it a personal Force ? If not, how did it come to bring about personal entities and intelligence to our reality ?

 

[LovelyWife3]

This is an interesting question. For me I see God everywhere and I am not just saying this because I am a Christian. I am also a Biologist which also gives me a different view/stance on the world around me. Though I know how babies are made it still does not make sense that something so small can grown and develop. I have been on this earth for over 27 years and though I have experienced more Tuesdays or Fridays that I can count no Tuesday or Friday is ever the same as a previous Tuesday or Friday no matter how mundane my life is... God reveals Himself but it is up to us how we take this evidence and information. I hope that you are able to get the answers that you are looking for

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

This is an interesting question. For me I see God everywhere and I am not just saying this because I am a Christian. I am also a Biologist which also gives me a different view/stance on the world around me. Though I know how babies are made it still does not make sense that something so small can grown and develop. I have been on this earth for over 27 years and though I have experienced more Tuesdays or Fridays that I can count no Tuesday or Friday is ever the same as a previous Tuesday or Friday no matter how mundane my life is... God reveals Himself but it is up to us how we take this evidence and information. I hope that you are able to get the answers that you are looking for

I too have a love for biology...particularly micro-biology. Speaking of babies, the chance of a mother delivering a totally healthy Baby is calculated at 1 in 10^30 th power (10 with 30 zeros after it) . Its truly a miracle .

I just got done with a Mens Study on Prof. Micheal Behe's 'Darwins Black Box' book . We examined the 16 step Cascade System for Blood Coagulation (scabbing of skin when cut) where each step has to trigger the next step to occur ending with Vitamin K finishing job...and Vitamin K isn't even related to the other entities --- a clear example of irreducible complexity completely nullifying gradual accidental evolution thru mutation. Then we got into molecular machines in the cell and molecular machines that area billion times smaller in the DNA molecule ! These machines have a stator, rotor, tail, and energy compartment that spin at 10,000 rpms in one direction then spin in 10,000 rpms in the other direction immediately. What we find in the smallest of things is truly mind boggling and testifies to Gods awesome Person and Nature. How neat is it going to be to live with such a magnificent Creator for all of eternity (?) .

 

[Angelquill]

Perhaps God interacts with each of us differently, because each of us is different?

Just a thought....

 

[bling]

God has done what it takes for the atheist to believe, but the atheist has to trust the evidence.

If you want “evidence” beyond disbelieve by the greatest skeptic, than that is knowledge without any faith needed.

The problem is man needs to trust (have faith) in order to help man fulfill his earthly objective.

 

[bhsmte]

God has done what it takes for the atheist to believe, but the atheist has to trust the evidence.

If you want “evidence” beyond disbelieve by the greatest skeptic, than that is knowledge without any faith needed.

The problem is man needs to trust (have faith) in order to help man fulfill his earthly objective.

How can you claim God has done what it take to make an atheist believe if one chooses to still not believe? If that is the case, he clearly hasn't done what is necessary for each person to believe.

 

[bhsmte]

Perhaps God interacts with each of us differently, because each of us is different?

Just a thought....

Ok, lets go with that.

God knows we are each different and also knows some people are more analytical thinkers vs intuitive thinkers and have different requirements for belief. If God knows we are different in how we think, he should be able to deliver an adequate message to each of us, that he is real.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

How can you claim God has done what it take to make an atheist believe if one chooses to still not believe? If that is the case, he clearly hasn't done what is necessary for each person to believe.

Why is it the Creators fault that an 'Atheist' chooses to veto the scientific evidence ? Just because 'an Atheist' chooses not to believe is that persons problem and its called Pride and Arrogance filled with lame excuses, willful misconceptions, and an unwillingness to stop being his own god in life.

The 'Atheist' believes...he just refuses to commit . God doesn't believe in Atheists and I sure don't either ; Not even the 'Atheist' truly has enough faith to believe in what he does because its too illogical, unreasonable, and defies basic common sense . That's why its a charade and a very foolish and dangerous one at that. Its like a very stubborn Donkey that you lead to a refreshing waterfall ... yet the Donkey doesn't want to drink from the Waterfall that can save him from dying of thirst. Many would call this sheer stupidity ... but such is a persons freewill choice sometimes.

 

[gord44]

So then, are you still believing in a Force and if so, what is its substance / how does it provide answers for you / how does it guide your life

Hi David!

Yes I believe in God. Answers are provided through holy texts, meditation, ritual and sometimes prayer. Self exploration and a willingness to go against what the masses believe to be the proper course also helps.

how did it bring an exquisite fine tuned ad hoc Universe into existence from a state of nothingness when the Universe didn't even need to exist ?

Through creation God will continue to learn about himself. That's its purpose. Self realize so to speak. You can see how he evolves through the OT as he interacts with humans.

Does your Force come with a Will and a Mind ? Is it a personal Force ? If not, how did it come to bring about personal entities and intelligence to our reality ?

God is our higher will. Our conscious selves are the lower will. The goal is to align our will with our higher will. That act itself on the surface usually seems selfish while serving the lower will is usually seen on the surface as more selfless. It's easy to get caught up in the lower will as it so often seems like the better choice. The pursuit of the higher will goes against much of what we know and are comfortable with, so it's not for everyone. And those who pursue the higher will usually are looked down upon by those who don't pursue it. But that's the way it goes.

Thanks for the questions. You seem at peace with your path and that's awesome.

 

[gord44]

Perhaps God interacts with each of us differently, because each of us is different?

Just a thought....

Indeed! That's why we can't look at others with disdain when they don't follow that path we believe to be correct.

 

[bhsmte]

Why is it the Creators fault that an 'Atheist' chooses to veto the scientific evidence ? Just because 'an Atheist' chooses not to believe is that persons problem and its called Pride and Arrogance filled with lame excuses, willful misconceptions, and an unwillingness to stop being his own god in life.

The 'Atheist' believes...he just refuses to commit . God doesn't believe in Atheists and I sure don't either ; Not even the 'Atheist' truly has enough faith to believe in what he does because its too illogical, unreasonable, and defies basic common sense . That's why its a charade and a very foolish and dangerous one at that. Its like a very stubborn Donkey that you lead to a refreshing waterfall ... yet the Donkey doesn't want to drink from the Waterfall that can save him from dying of thirst. Many would call this sheer stupidity ... but such is a persons freewill choice sometimes.

Because the poster claimed; God has done what is necessary to make the atheist believe.

If the atheist still does not believe, this obviously is not true. Everyone has a threshold that must be reached before believing in anything and God should know this, if he is as many claim. If the threshold is not met, then belief will not be forthcoming and he hasn't done what is necessary to meet the threshold.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Hi David!

Yes I believe in God. Answers are provided through holy texts, meditation, ritual and sometimes prayer. Self exploration and a willingness to go against what the masses believe to be the proper course also helps.



Through creation God will continue to learn about himself. That's its purpose. Self realize so to speak. You can see how he evolves through the OT as he interacts with humans.



God is our higher will. Our conscious selves are the lower will. The goal is to align our will with our higher will. That act itself on the surface usually seems selfish while serving the lower will is usually seen on the surface as more selfless. It's easy to get caught up in the lower will as it so often seems like the better choice. The pursuit of the higher will goes against much of what we know and are comfortable with, so it's not for everyone. And those who pursue the higher will usually are looked down upon by those who don't pursue it. But that's the way it goes.

Thanks for the questions. You seem at peace with your path and that's awesome.

Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, eastern religious thought is not conducive to modern scientific evidences for a personal theistic Creator / the historical evidences for the New Testament / the many evidences for the real resurrection of Christ which therefore nullifies all competing world religions and aberrant philosophies .

The evidences are easily obtainable for the above but if you've been predisposed to a culture that is bent of eastern religiousity , then it may be enough to keep you glued to that instead of being a Truth Seeker which is confirmed by the modern sciences since that is the neutral standard of truth testing (at least in western culture and should be thruout the world since science is in the business of truth discovery and our reality) .

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Because the poster claimed; God has done what is necessary to make the atheist believe.

If the atheist still does not believe, this obviously is not true. Everyone has a threshold that must be reached before believing in anything and God should know this, if he is as many claim. If the threshold is not met, then belief will not be forthcoming and he hasn't done what is necessary to meet the threshold.

Our Creator HAS done everything possible for anyone to know he exists and is an infinite, eternal , transcendent personal Being from the leftover effects of Creation. God isn't so forceful that he violates your freewill to own that ; rather, its your freewill to move in Gods direction because of the truth and because it is absolutely correct to engage the Creator in personal relationship. But many people don't want the truth / they suppress the truth / or they simply see God as an affront to their MO in life .

If you as an 'Atheist' cant believe, then its not for lack of evidence that makes up our reality. God has gone way out of his way . Its youre dilemma if you play the role of the stubborn Donkey who wont drink whats good for himself. Play this charade all your earthly life and it will end in utter regret and great disappointment . It can all be avoided very easily except relinguishing ones personal Pride is the most difficult thing to do for a good many.

 

[gord44]

Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, eastern religious thought is not conducive to modern scientific evidences for a personal theistic Creator / the historical evidences for the New Testament / the many evidences for the real resurrection of Christ which therefore nullifies all competing world religions and aberrant philosophies .

Hi David!

My thoughts are not really eastern. If anything they are Western. Based in Western thought with a strong base in the Tanakh.

I don't deny the incarnation and resurrection.

Science is great on the physical and mental levels of being. But there is also etheric, astral and spiritual that need to be explored and fully grasped. The highest being spiritual.

 

[bhsmte]

Our Creator HAS done everything possible for anyone to know he exists and is an infinite, eternal , transcendent personal Being from the leftover effects of Creation. God isn't so forceful that he violates your freewill to own that ; rather, its your freewill to move in Gods direction because of the truth and because it is absolutely correct to engage the Creator in personal relationship. But many people don't want the truth / they suppress the truth / or they simply see God as an affront to their MO in life .

If you as an 'Atheist' cant believe, then its not for lack of evidence that makes up our reality. God has gone way out of his way . Its youre dilemma if you play the role of the stubborn Donkey who wont drink whats good for himself. Play this charade all your earthly life and it will end in utter regret and great disappointment . It can all be avoided very easily except relinguishing ones personal Pride is the most difficult thing to do for a good many.

Of course it is from lack of evidence, as we all do not have the same requirement in believing in something.

I understand your need to make the claim the evidence is available, but sorry, you can't speak for others in this regard.

 

[oi_antz]

@TheyCallMeDavid, I just want to remind you that although I do have everything necessary for me to be able to fly a helicopter, I can't. The reason is that I have not been educated to fly one. Anyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ is in the same situation. They have not received the right information to arrive at that decision. Perhaps they have not asked for it, or they might have declined to receive it, but whatever the reason, they do not possess the knowledge that you and I do. It is likely that they also have received education that we have not. Then there are those who rebel against Him willingly, but they are not atheist.

 

[gord44]

They have not received the right information to arrive at that decision. Perhaps they have not asked for it, or they might have declined to receive it, but whatever the reason, they do not possess the knowledge that you and I do.

Another possibility is they have received the info. Digested it. Took what they could from it and moved on. Not satisfied to linger in stagnancy but wanting to pursue God further, beyond what is permitted by words in old books and men.

Your 'orthodox' Christian sees one who has moved past the 'orthodox' faith as one who has 'fallen' away. But what if the said person has not fallen, but climbed higher?

 

[oi_antz]

Another possibility is they have received the info. Digested it. Took what they could from it and moved on. Not satisfied to linger in stagnancy but wanting to pursue God further, beyond what is permitted by words in old books and men.

Your 'orthodox' Christian sees one who has moved past the 'orthodox' faith as one who has 'fallen' away. But what if the said person has not fallen, but climbed higher?

That is possible, and IMO recommended. But it doesn't describe the situation where someone does not believe Jesus was right (I think, as I have not been educated otherwise).

 

[rstrats]

oi antz,

re: "Anyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ is in the same situation. They have not received the right information..."

But if they do receive the right information - then what? Are you suggesting that a person has the ability to consciously choose to believe things?