Hate Of Yeshua Within The Judaism

[Auhsey mehsab]

Shalom amazing people!,

I am Messianic Hebrew and it's easy as such to be sometimes excited by all that is Judaic but let's face the truth within the Rabinnic Judaism there is loads of hate towards Yeshua.

One of the writings I recently found is TOLEDOT YESHU written apprently by Rabbi Gamaliel one who thought Shaul/Paul.

What other source of hate did you find within the Judaism, can you share?

I am doing this research just to keep objective and not get to swayed towards one side of story...

HaShem Bless and Shabbat Shalom!

 

[yonah_mishael]

I've never heard of this Toledot Yeshu (תולדות יש&#1493. Where did you find it?

I noticed that your name is Bashem Yeshua backwards. Notice that a word in construct (smichut) does not take the article. You need to write beshem (בְּשֵׁ&#1501, not bashem (בַּשֵּׁ&#1501.

 

[ChavaK]

why in the world would you want to post such a topic as this?

 

[ChavaK]

I've never heard of this Toledot Yeshu (תולדות יש&#1493.

Had to look it up on Wikipedia. Apparently written in the 10th century and never taken seriously by "Rabbinic" Judaism. However, it has been used by anti-semites to attack Jews and Judaism. Hope that isn't the intention with this post.

 

[ContraMundum]

why in the world would you want to post such a topic as this?

...and with the bad grammar as well!

 

[ChavaK]

...and with the bad grammar as well!

LOL.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Shalom amazing people!,

I am Messianic Hebrew and it's easy as such to be sometimes excited by all that is Judaic but let's face the truth within the Rabinnic Judaism there is loads of hate towards Yeshua.

One of the writings I recently found is TOLEDOT YESHU written apprently by Rabbi Gamaliel one who thought Shaul/Paul.

What other source of hate did you find within the Judaism, can you share?

I am doing this research just to keep objective and not get to swayed towards one side of story...

HaShem Bless and Shabbat Shalom!

Read this about Jesus in the Talmud by an orthodox Jew:

Jesus In The Talmud - Introduction

 

[yonah_mishael]

Yeah, I've never heard of this work, and it does seem like it was created as a blight against the Jews.

 

[pshun2404]

Shalom amazing people!,

I am Messianic Hebrew and it's easy as such to be sometimes excited by all that is Judaic but let's face the truth within the Rabinnic Judaism there is loads of hate towards Yeshua.

One of the writings I recently found is TOLEDOT YESHU written apprently by Rabbi Gamaliel one who thought Shaul/Paul.

What other source of hate did you find within the Judaism, can you share?

I am doing this research just to keep objective and not get to swayed towards one side of story...

HaShem Bless and Shabbat Shalom!

You are misinformed...the Toldoth Yeshu was written in the 5th century CE (almost 600 years after Gamaliel's death)...the amazing thing about the Toldoth is that it admits He was crucified, buried, and that the tomb was indeed empty (as they try and explain this away)....so the history is affirmed though it denies who He said He was...and tries to explain away the resurrection accounts

Paul

 

[yonah_mishael]

Oh, a document from the 400s can tell us what the Jews of the first Century were thinking? This should be interesting. The writing was clearly a reaction to the Christian claim, not what the Jews of the time would actually have "admitted".

 

[pshun2404]

Oh, a document from the 400s can tell us what the Jews of the first Century were thinking? This should be interesting. The writing was clearly a reaction to the Christian claim, not what the Jews of the time would actually have "admitted".

That's fair...but undoubtedly not the words of THE Rabbi Gamaliel...its pseudipigraphic at best (like the gnostic Gospel of Thomas to the followers of Yeshua...Thomas was long dead)! There was never a denial of His crucifixion by Pontius Pilate or the empty tomb...

Paul

 

[yonah_mishael]

I'm just saying - I would like to have received through history the actual words of those who were in Jerusalem when Jesus was claimed to have come back from the dead.

Imagine someone having been beaten as bad as Jesus is said to have been beaten and then crucified. How long do you think it would take for the corpse to be unrecognizable? Yet, don't forget that according to the book of Acts there was no public announcement of Jesus' resurrection until Pentecost (Shavuot). Do you not think that the body would have broken down - in as bad a shape as it was when placed in the cave - beyond recognition before the announcement even came from the disciples? Could we really have expected the Jewish leaders to pull this unrecognizable body out of a tomb and say "See?! This is Jesus' body!"

If they had made the pronouncement on "resurrection Sunday," I'm sure things would have been different - because at that point, evidence to the contrary could have been produced. The disciples had almost two months between Pesach and Shavuot to make their claim and have it refuted, but they waited until it would have been impossible for someone to prove them wrong. Interesting tactic.

 

[ContraMundum]

I'm just saying - I would like to have received through history the actual words of those who were in Jerusalem when Jesus was claimed to have come back from the dead.

Cuts both ways Yonah.

It's impossible to verify (under such conditions) any story or character of the Bible.

Imagine someone having been beaten as bad as Jesus is said to have been beaten and then crucified. How long do you think it would take for the corpse to be unrecognizable? Yet, don't forget that according to the book of Acts there was no public announcement of Jesus' resurrection until Pentecost (Shavuot). Do you not think that the body would have broken down - in as bad a shape as it was when placed in the cave - beyond recognition before the announcement even came from the disciples? Could we really have expected the Jewish leaders to pull this unrecognizable body out of a tomb and say "See?! This is Jesus' body!"

If they had made the pronouncement on "resurrection Sunday," I'm sure things would have been different - because at that point, evidence to the contrary could have been produced. The disciples had almost two months between Pesach and Shavuot to make their claim and have it refuted, but they waited until it would have been impossible for someone to prove them wrong. Interesting tactic.

As you well know, the NT doesn't read that way. No dead body was produced because there was no dead body. There still isn't. Secondly, word did spread around amongst the disciples long before Pentecost. Was there any need to make a "public pronouncement", especially under the religious and political conditions of the day? I think the disciples simply weren't stupid enough to think that any public announcement would merely have anything other than ridicule. The NT records that rumours spread around as to why Jesus's body was not there.

In the end, in the NT record, God did the confirmation of the resurrection at Pentecost.

It is interesting to note that recent critical and even secular scholarship is leaning very heavily towards the notion that the resurrection account is historically supportable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay_Db4RwZ_M

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Cuts both ways Yonah.

It's impossible to verify (under such conditions) any story or character of the Bible.



As you well know, the NT doesn't read that way. No dead body was produced because there was no dead body. There still isn't. Secondly, word did spread around amongst the disciples long before Pentecost. Was there any need to make a "public pronouncement", especially under the religious and political conditions of the day? I think the disciples simply weren't stupid enough to think that any public announcement would merely have anything other than ridicule. The NT records that rumours spread around as to why Jesus's body was not there.

In the end, in the NT record, God did the confirmation of the resurrection at Pentecost.

It is interesting to note that recent critical and even secular scholarship is leaning very heavily towards the notion that the resurrection account is historically supportable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay_Db4RwZ_M

Interesting witnessing what other scholars have said on the matter - will have to check out what it is that the speaker in the video says more in-depth later on

 

[yonah_mishael]

I'm sure that the NT reads differently, but that doesn't mean that the NT represents either truth or history. The fact is, there was no public claim of a resurrection until it was long past possible for the Jewish leadership to disprove it.

 

[Steve Petersen]

As Contra suggested, apply the same standard to ANY event in the Torah.

 

[pshun2404]

I'm just saying - I would like to have received through history the actual words of those who were in Jerusalem when Jesus was claimed to have come back from the dead.

Imagine someone having been beaten as bad as Jesus is said to have been beaten and then crucified. How long do you think it would take for the corpse to be unrecognizable? Yet, don't forget that according to the book of Acts there was no public announcement of Jesus' resurrection until Pentecost (Shavuot). Do you not think that the body would have broken down - in as bad a shape as it was when placed in the cave - beyond recognition before the announcement even came from the disciples? Could we really have expected the Jewish leaders to pull this unrecognizable body out of a tomb and say "See?! This is Jesus' body!"

If they had made the pronouncement on "resurrection Sunday," I'm sure things would have been different - because at that point, evidence to the contrary could have been produced. The disciples had almost two months between Pesach and Shavuot to make their claim and have it refuted, but they waited until it would have been impossible for someone to prove them wrong. Interesting tactic.

As David prophesied, God would not suffer His Holy One to suffer corruption (the rotting of the body through death)...if Yeshua had truly not sinned, then the consequence due sin, death (according to Deut. and elsewhere) would not have overcome Him...that is why the grave could not hold Him...

Secondly we do have additional witnesses...Sukenik (a Jewish scholar and Archaeologist not interested in supporting Christianity) notes that grave markers found by him IN Jerusalem from the mid-first century...(see also the work of "Bagatti") have statements inscribed on them that declare Yeshua Messiah, the Lord, that He "is" risen (they were alive at the time people)...and one even calls Him the l'Shelem (He who completes the transaction...hence the redeemer)...

Also a badly beaten, blood drained body, might make one they were not expecting to see (believing Him dead) appear a bit odd or unrecognizable at first encounter...

Paul

 

[rick357]

I'm sure that the NT reads differently, but that doesn't mean that the NT represents either truth or history. The fact is, there was no public claim of a resurrection until it was long past possible for the Jewish leadership to disprove it.

I am not a person of any great knowledge but it seems to me that Elohim never felt a need to appear to anyone in order to prove a point, but instead by his grace appeared to those who already trusted him. So it is not out of his blessed character to appear to those who believed on his messiah first and also to speak to his elect on first fruits is not to prove a resurrection but to offer what he had provided

 

[CherubRam]

I'm just saying - I would like to have received through history the actual words of those who were in Jerusalem when Jesus was claimed to have come back from the dead.

Imagine someone having been beaten as bad as Jesus is said to have been beaten and then crucified. How long do you think it would take for the corpse to be unrecognizable? Yet, don't forget that according to the book of Acts there was no public announcement of Jesus' resurrection until Pentecost (Shavuot). Do you not think that the body would have broken down - in as bad a shape as it was when placed in the cave - beyond recognition before the announcement even came from the disciples? Could we really have expected the Jewish leaders to pull this unrecognizable body out of a tomb and say "See?! This is Jesus' body!"

If they had made the pronouncement on "resurrection Sunday," I'm sure things would have been different - because at that point, evidence to the contrary could have been produced. The disciples had almost two months between Pesach and Shavuot to make their claim and have it refuted, but they waited until it would have been impossible for someone to prove them wrong. Interesting tactic.

You are forgetting that the priest had the tomb guarded by a Roman commander of 100 soldiers. The incident was reported immediately by the soldiers.

 

[yonah_mishael]

You are forgetting that the priest had the tomb guarded by a Roman commander of 100 soldiers. The incident was reported immediately by the soldiers.

100 soldiers?! That's simply an exaggeration. As it is, only Matthew reports that any type of guard was placed at the tomb - and it seems to be a convenient addition to the story. I don't imagine that there was really a seal or a guard at the tomb. These are polemic contrivances on the part of the author of the gospel of Matthew. You won't find them anywhere else - because it's a lie.