Why are SDA so paraoid of Jesuits?

[MoreCoffee]

BobRyan, you seem so keen on pope clement (not sure which number) that maybe you ought to become a Catholic. Here's a nice book you could read ...

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by LiberalAnglicanCatholic

It's Friday...don't good Catholics avoid meat on Friday?
​

I am planning to have fish and chips today, God willing

Because fish is a funny sort of "vegetable" that comes from water??

 

[BobRyan]

MC notices that every time the attempt to made to pretend that only SDA notice something in Jesuit history that is not 100% complimentary - that thing about Pope Clement XIV himself abolishing them by "all the fulness of apostolic power" keeps coming up.

BobRyan, you seem so keen on pope clement (not sure which number)

Hmm - I think at least 1 detail has registered.

A glimmer...

And of course - who can forget ...

in Christ,

Bob

 

[MoreCoffee]

Because fish is a funny sort of "vegetable" that comes from water??

No, because fish is not meat. Haven't you read what saint Paul says? There's one flesh of birds, another of fish ... mind you, I had eggs and bread as my only meal yesterday, Friday. Today is Saturday. Things have changed and I am going to have Thai red beef curry with rice, I am going out for lunch with a friend.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Hmm - I think at least 1 detail has registered.

A glimmer...

Tis is a short video clip you might like

Introduction to Catholicism - YouTube

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by LiberalAnglicanCatholic

It's Friday...don't good Catholics avoid meat on Friday?
​

I am planning to have fish and chips today, God willing

Because fish is a funny sort of "vegetable" that comes from water??

No, because fish is not meat.

this had better be good. ph no wait! That was already pretty good!!

Haven't you read what saint Paul says? There's one flesh of birds, another of fish ..

1 Cor 15

35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.


39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.

so then men and birds and fish are all vegetables???

(ok maybe some people -- but not all cause the rest are fruit... )

you guys really go for that sort of thing just because of 1Cor 15.?? Are you sure there is not some sort of infallible Canon law - ecumenical council something-or-other getting mixed in there?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Tis is a short video clip you might like

Introduction to Catholicism - YouTube

By "short" do you mean 41 minutes??

Question 1. of the different John Paul Popes - which one is "John Paul the Great"???

Question 2. in the first five minutes - Fulton Sheen is quoted as if he knows something about both Catholics and non-Catholics. Is this where Catholics will admit that quoting Popes, Bishops, Catholic Digest etc when they say something that is "inconvenient" --- still matters??

Question 3 - at the 12 - 13 minute mark your video actually uses the Apostolic succession of Judas. which is the only one found in actual scripture -- even though James dies early on in the book of Acts - and there is no Apostolic succession for him.

But the video admits that the model they are following is the one for Judas.

 

[Rick Otto]

MoreCoffee likes videos?
Here's a good one:
Ex Jesuit Alberto Rivera and others Speak on Jesuit infiltration - YouTube

 

[agua]

She wrote no books, articles , sermons etc promoting an 1844 shut door doctrine - nor did she ever claim that God gave her a vision promoting it.

Are you suggesting Mrs White didn't promote the shut door doctrine or that she didn't write about it ?

And "infallible on all points" is not test of a prophet according to the Bible. Rather it is the message that is claimed to have come to God that must be tested for 100% accuracy - not the prior view of the individual apart from a message from God.

Can you post the scriptures which ratify a Prophet ?

A number of people in the Bible were given dreams or visions regarding some point - while also personally have some other view on other topics that was not entirely accurate.

John the baptizer himself ended his life with one or two pointed questions.

in Christ,

Bob

Can you show me the people in the Bible who were given dreams from Yahweh but personally held contradicting views . I'm guessing from this you are suggesting that even though Mrs White was wrong in many of her doctrinal views that she still received visions or dreams from Yahweh is that your belief?

 

[BobRyan]

Are you suggesting Mrs White didn't promote the shut door doctrine or that she didn't write about it ?

She wrote about it as historic fact of what Millerites believed for a short period of time - but she did not write about it or even preach about it by saying "hey this is the right teaching -- i recommend it". hence no quote of such a document or sermon from Ellen White to that effect even by detractors on this thread.

(Details matter)

Can you post the scriptures which ratify a Prophet ?

Covenants are "ratified". Did you mean "scriptures that define what a prophet is" or do you mean the prophetic spiritual gift of 1Cor 12 and 1Cor 14:1??

Can you show me the people in the Bible who were given dreams from Yahweh but personally held contradicting views

Easy - Acts 10 Peter has a vision telling him to go preach to gentiles in effect - and he states to the gentiles that he believed this to be "against the Law of God" -- something that should not be done.

it is interesting because Peter "ponders what this means" after getting the vision - and then the Holy Spirit specifically tells him to go with the gentile messengers to the home of Cornelius.

Other examples of people with confused beliefs who had visions/dreams -- would be Nebuchadnezzar .

Another example is Peter, James and John in Matt 17 see the vision of Moses and Elijah with Christ - and yet are still totally confused about Christ's role in dying for sins of the world.

. I'm guessing from this you are suggesting that even though Mrs White was wrong in many of her doctrinal views that she still received visions or dreams from Yahweh is that your belief?

I am not suggesting that she taught doctrinal error - but infinite knowledge on all subjects - and/or infinite understanding of all doctrine no matter the subject - is not a Bible test of a prophet.

The prophet Nathan that gave advice to David was wrong at first. And it is doubtful that he could have predicted the church age and the specifics about the death of Christ -- that even the average Christian would understand today.

I am simply making a point for reference.


Having said that -- No matter the human limitation of the prophet themselves - the message they get from God will always be infallible if indeed it is from God. So it is to be tested "sola scriptura" to see if it contradicts any point of scripture. "To the Law and to the Testimony if they speak not according to THiS Word they have no light" Is 8:19-20

If the message is found to be in doctrinal error and it is claimed to have come from God - then the one making that claim is a false prophet.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Athanasias]

Listen the SDA Chuch is lying to you. The reformed SDA"S has documented its lies. Its all here:
Origin of the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement | Official website of the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement

 

[BobRyan]

Listen the SDA Chuch is lying to you.

Isn't that the same thing you say about Pope Clement XIV when he abolishes the Jesuit order "by all the fulness of Apostolic power"??

 

[Athanasias]

Isn't that the same thing you say about Pope Clement XIV when he abolishes the Jesuit order "by all the fulness of Apostolic power"??

Didn't we just go over this Bob. It worked you fell for it. You see we do control you without you even knowing it We never were extinguished in reality by the Pope we just needed the world to think we were. And it worked. Oh Publicly you thought we were. and maybe for a short time it seemed that way but undercover is where the real damage can be done and has been. It is much easier to assume control when you they don't think you exist. Just ask the demons

 

[BobRyan]

Listen the SDA Chuch is lying to you.

Isn't that the same thing you say about Pope Clement XIV when he abolishes the Jesuit order "by all the fulness of Apostolic power"??

Didn't we just go over this Bob.

i think we did.

Hence - The point remains.

We never were extinguished in reality by the Pope we just needed the world to think we were. And it worked. Oh Publicly you thought we were. and maybe for a short time it seemed that way but undercover is where the real damage can be done and has been. It is much easier to assume control when you they don't think you exist. Just ask the demons

I have a hard time arguing against that one... but give me some time...

in Christ,

Bob

 

[agua]

She wrote about it has historic fact of what Millerites believed for a short period of time - but she did not write about it or even preach about it by saying "hey this is the right teaching -- i recommend it". hence no quote of such a document or sermon from Ellen White to that effect even by detractors on this thread.

Oky doky. Mrs White ( Ms Harmon at the time ) was a Millerite but formed a new group after the 1844 doctrine failed to eventuate and this led to the introduction of the investigative judgement doctrine. Is that right ?

Covenants are "ratified". Did you mean "scriptures that define what a prophet is" or do you mean the prophetic spiritual gift of 1Cor 12 and 1Cor 14:1??

Yeah I mean scripture that shows us when a prophet has spoken from Yahweh.

Easy - Acts 10 Peter has a vision telling him to go preach to gentiles in effect - and he states to the gentiles that he believed this to be "against the Law of God" -- something that should not be done.

it is interesting because Peter "ponders what this means" after getting the vision - and then the Holy Spirit specifically tells him to go with the gentile messengers to the home of Cornelius.

Cool example. Ok so we can assume a person holds an incorrect idea/doctrine but when they receive the truth they quickly change their mind ?

Other examples of people with confused beliefs who had visions/dreams -- would be Nebuchadnezzar .

Another example is Peter, James and John in Matt 17 see the vision of Moses and Elijah with Christ - and yet are still totally confused about Christ's role in dying for sins of the world.

Cool. Can you give me some visions and dreams of Mrs White's that reflect Biblical truths ?

I am not suggesting that she taught doctrinal error - but infinite knowledge on all subjects - and/or infinite understanding of all doctrine no matter the subject - is not a Bible test of a prophet.

ah ok. So are you suggesting there are no flaws in Mrs Whites teaching at all ? I've never heard this idea that Mrs White taught infinite knowledge. It seems you might be suggesting infinite knowledge can't be refuted because it may be extrabiblical and unable to be ratified ( sorry checked ) with scripture is that right ?

The prophet Nathan that gave advice to David was wrong at first. And it is doubtful that he could have predicted the church age and the specifics about the death of Christ -- that even the average Christian would understand today.

I am simply making a point for reference.


Having said that -- No matter the human limitation of the prophet themselves - the message they get from God will always be infallible if indeed it is from God. So it is to be tested "sola scriptura" to see if it contradicts any point of scripture. "To the Law and to the Testimony if they speak not according to THiS Word they have no light" Is 8:19-20

If the message is found to be in doctrinal error and it is claimed to have come from God - then the one making that claim is a false prophet.

in Christ,

Bob

Ok. Do you believe Mrs White has not presented, and promoted, any incorrect doctrine ?

 

[MoreCoffee]

MoreCoffee likes videos?
Here's a good one:
Ex Jesuit Alberto Rivera and others Speak on Jesuit infiltration - YouTube

Heh heh heh, more fantasy land episodes from youtube and linked by our own Rick Otto! Of course Alberto Rivera was not a Jesuit and his stories are rather silly fictions, but they are great for conspiracy theorists to play with



Try Chick comics next Rick Otto, the above post got quite a few chuckles from me.

 

[Rick Otto]

Heh heh heh, more fantasy land episodes from youtube and linked by our own Rick Otto! Of course Alberto Rivera was not a Jesuit and his stories are rather silly fictions, but they are great for conspiracy theorists to play with



Try Chick comics next Rick Otto, the above post got quite a few chuckles from me.

I owed you that. I have enough chuckles from my RCC upbringing to last a lifetime.
They tell the most scathing jokes about Catholicism I've yet to hear.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I owed you that. I have enough chuckles from my RCC upbringing to last a lifetime.
They tell the most scathing jokes about Catholicism I've yet to hear.

Never fear, your posts often make me laugh.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Reformed nuns, priests, and laity Catholics document Catholic lies and how Simon Magus started what became the RCC...........

I love it!

Simon the Sorcerer or Simon the Magician, in Latin Simon Magus, (Greek Σίμων ὁ μάγο&#962 was a Samaritan magus or religious figure and a convert to Christianity, baptised by Philip the Evangelist, whose later confrontation with Peter is recorded in Acts 8:9–24.

Acts 9:
9 Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great,
10 and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.”
18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money
19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!


.

 

[BobRyan]

on the off-chance MC is able to address the questions about his own video

Originally Posted by MoreCoffee Tis is a short video clip you might like

Introduction to Catholicism - YouTube


By "short" do you mean 41 minutes??

Question 1. of the different John Paul Popes - which one is "John Paul the Great"???

Question 2. in the first five minutes - Fulton Sheen is quoted as if he knows something about both Catholics and non-Catholics. Is this where Catholics will admit that quoting Popes, Bishops, Catholic Digest etc when they say something that is "inconvenient" --- still matters??

Question 3 - at the 12 - 13 minute mark your video actually uses the Apostolic succession of Judas. which is the only one found in actual scripture -- even though James dies early on in the book of Acts - and there is no Apostolic succession for him.

But the video admits that the model they are following is the one for Judas.