Federal judge: Arguments against gay marriage 'are not those of serious people'

[bhsmte]

Ever wonder why it was only 27% back in 1996? Is 18 years ago considered the "dark ages" or something?

Decide for yourself.

Give it another couple of years and it will be 70% or higher. You can't stop progress, the education train just keeps rolling along.

 

[Belk]

Ever wonder why it was only 27% back in 1996? Is 18 years ago considered the "dark ages" or something?

No, I know why it is. The same reason 80% were against interracial marriage when Loving V Virginia was decided.

 

[Queller]

Sure! When I try to get the definition of words straight that you are using to try to back me into a corner, you call me evasive. There's nothing evasive about getting a clear understanding of what a person is talking about. Specifically, I think the word "discriminate" has been altered to mean something it never meant until recently. It used to mean something admirable, such as having discriminating tastes, to something negative. I just choose not to buy into it.

The word discrimination has meant "to distinguish in a prejudicial way" since 1866. Fail.

discriminate
1620s, from L. discriminare "to divide," from discrimen, derived n. from discernere (see discern). The adverse (usually racial) sense is first recorded 1866, Amer.Eng.

 

[Glass*Soul]

Marriage comes from the Jewish custom. That's why it exists.

Legal recognition could simply be found by calling "marriage" something else (which existed with civil unions) and taking it outside a church and away from the religious context.

Please offer some citations supporting your assertion that marriage comes from the Jewish custom. What about Mesopotamian wedding traditions? What about Chinese wedding traditions?

 

[Glass*Soul]

Yes it has. The first marriage was recorded in Genesis in the old-testament, then it carried on into Jewish tradition from there.

Anything else is not "marriage", it's whatever you want to call it but it isn't a marriage.

What we call marriage today was instituted by Moses. If you don't believe in marriage, have a civil union.

Moses instituted marriage? Did no one marry until the time of Moses?

 

[Freodin]

Moses instituted marriage? Did no one marry until the time of Moses?

I can almost hear old Moses telling his parents (in laws, adopted or real): You are not really married. You did it wrong. You live in sin! Oh, and I am a bastard.

 

[Cute Tink]

It also depends on a person's values. If marriage to a Christian is something sacred, of God, and is to be for life, then that person will place more importance of defining it correctly. I guess for homosexuals, it's more of a wishy-washy thing to change the meaning of so it's fits their own definition, even if it means the overthrowing of the will of voters when the question is brought to them to decide.

Now that's not insulting or anything

Again, the will of the voters cannot revoke rights and privileges from a group without a substantial governmental purpose.

But you're ignoring the differences! That's the problem right there! Is a house and a mobile home the same thing? The only difference is that one is on wheels and the other is not. But they are different too. So do you call one the same as the other based on what you focus on, or what it actually is?

You're hyperfocusing on the differences to the point of absurdity. That's the problem right there.

Are a house and a mobile home the same thing? In many ways, YES! Structurally there are differences, but are there more differences than similarities? Guess what? I call both a home. I lived in a 2 story house not that long ago. My neighbor had a one story house. They are both houses. The same, but still different.

I dunno. I see both homosexuals and heterosexuals as human beings deserving of dignity and respect instead of staring at only what makes them different and using that sole justification to think I have a right to revoke or deny the rights and privileges of one of them.

If I were to take your position to its logical conclusion, then I guess 1 difference, no matter how minor, is more important than every other aspect being the same. I just can't think like that.

 

[Aldebaran]

Decide for yourself.

Give it another couple of years and it will be 70% or higher. You can't stop progress, the education train just keeps rolling along.

Yeah, and by then even those who want to have sex with consenting minors will have more rights. Progress....

 

[AirPo]

Yeah, and by then even those who want to have sex with consenting minors will have more rights. Progress....

Minors cannot consent.

 

[Aldebaran]

Again, the will of the voters cannot revoke rights and privileges from a group without a substantial governmental purpose.

The vote was whether or not to allow gay marriage. Gay marriage hadn't existed yet. The voters decided they didn't want it in their communities. What does that tell you about what the majority wants and values? So the fact that it is law doesn't mean it was by the will of the people.

 

[Aldebaran]

Minors cannot consent.

Actually, they can consent to anything they want. It's just not recognized in the legal sense of the word. But just watch the laws slowly change. There doesn't seem to be any limits anymore.

 

[Freodin]

Yeah, and by then even those who want to have sex with consenting minors will have more rights. Progress....

See goalpost. See goalpost move. Move goalpost move!

 

[AirPo]

Actually, they can consent to anything they want. It's just not recognized in the legal sense of the word. But just watch the laws slowly change. There doesn't seem to be any limits anymore.

Fine.

Minors cannot legally consent.

 

[bhsmte]

Yeah, and by then even those who want to have sex with consenting minors will have more rights. Progress....

Hey, manufacture whatever suits you're fancy.

 

[Aldebaran]

Hey, manufacture whatever suits you're fancy.

I don't have to manufacture it. NAMBLA

 

[Cute Tink]

The vote was whether or not to allow gay marriage. Gay marriage hadn't existed yet. The voters decided they didn't want it in their communities. What does that tell you about what the majority wants and values? So the fact that it is law doesn't mean it was by the will of the people.

Then change "revoke" to "revoke or deny" and the principle is still the same.

What does that tell me about what the majority wants and values? That people want to be heavily involved in the lives of people they will never meet, even when it is something that will not affect them in the slightest.

 

[Queller]

And to Christians, marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman. So why is that a problem?

There are plenty of Christians who believe marriage is between any two consenting, non-related adults. There are even Christian churches in NC suing to be able to perform same-sex marriages.

North Carolina’s Gay-Marriage Ban Is Challenged by Church[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Well, that's a difference. So why should something different have the same meaning. If something is different, then the definition is different. Calling 2 different things by the same name don't make them the same.

A man and multiple women was a difference in the Bible as well but it was still called marriage. Or are you going to deny scripture as well?

 

[Cute Tink]

There doesn't seem to be any limits anymore.

Except you are wrong. There are plenty of limits and actually more are coming into place. You and other religious people are being restricted about how much you can use your religion to control other people's lives.

 

[Queller]

But you're ignoring the differences!

Because the differences are irrelevant to the state.

That's the problem right there! Is a house and a mobile home the same thing? The only difference is that one is on wheels and the other is not.

They're both homes, are they not?

But they are different too. So do you call one the same as the other based on what you focus on, or what it actually is?

Are they not both homes?

 

[Queller]

I chose to use the word as it was originally intended rather than the way the liberals have twisted it.

Liberals in the 1860s twisted it?