Important Facts about Evolution

[DogmaHunter]

Evolution, or whatever scientific beginning you believe in, requires One Force. Can you explain that the Force you believe in is not God?

Good grief...

1. evolution explains the diversity of life, not the beginning of life
2. no idea what you mean with "One Force" (with capital letters even) nore why you think it is supposedly required

Evolution is the inevitable consequence of systems that reproduce with variation that try to survive in a specific environment while competing with other such systems.

What "force"?
It's a process. And an inevitable one at that.

It's like adding up inches. Inevitably, you'll end up with many many miles.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

This question is basically changing the subject entirely.

3. You can believe a deity guides evolution all you like. But unless you provide evidence that deities themselves exist, you shouldn't expect to make atheists like myself believe that to be the case, as one can easily argue evolution itself would have no apparent differences guided or not. It just leads to a dead end argument laden with opinions that goes nowhere.

Not sure which subject your referring to, since there were clear points made by the OP referring to the matter of evolution, Deity, and belief. So, back to the question I asked. A force was required wether your talking about evolution, scientific beginnings, or creation. What is the evidence that the Force was not God?

 

[Mainframes]

Not sure which subject your referring to, since there were clear points made by the OP referring to the matter of evolution, Deity, and belief. So, back to the question I asked. A force was required wether your talking about evolution, scientific beginnings, or creation. What is the evidence that the Force was not God?

What force is required?

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Actually there are two major forces behind evolution.

Neither of them is God.

This is your belief. Your answer seems basic yet everyone should follow your belief because you said "Neither of them is God". Who are the "them"? Or what is the "them"?

They are variation (which includes both mutation and the recombination of genes from sexual reproduction) and natural selection. The first introduces both new genes and new combinations of genes, the second weeds out the genes and combinations that do not work. Pretty cool, huh? An observed process gets rid of the need for God. Just as Isaac Newton brought about an end to Intelligent Falling or IF.

This also defers the question. You have told others that mere men wrote the scriptures; yet you expect me to believe that Newton was more then a man and his words are by far superior. In that case,

"Newton was raised on Scripture, which inculcated a lifelong devotion to it. He placed its authority above all others and knew it better than most divines. Despite taking the Church of England's authority very seriously, if ever he felt that the church veered from Holy Writ, he always deferred to Scripture."

(www.credenda.org/index.php/Theology/isaac-newton-on-the-trinity-hypothesis.html)

So, if he held scripture so high; shouldn't we all?

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Good grief... 1. evolution explains the diversity of life, not the beginning of life 2. no idea what you mean with "One Force" (with capital letters even) nore why you think it is supposedly required Evolution is the inevitable consequence of systems that reproduce with variation that try to survive in a specific environment while competing with other such systems. What "force"? It's a process. And an inevitable one at that. It's like adding up inches. Inevitably, you'll end up with many many miles.

good grief for sure. so "systematic evolution" requires reproduction and inevitable consequences; got it. what was the first reproduction of and what was the factor to reproduce if that would only multiply the competition within the first system?

 

[toolmanjantzi]

What force is required?

" Many physicists believe that, at the beginning of the universe (up to 10-43 seconds after the Big Bang), the four fundamental forces were once a single fundamental force."

(http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_everything)

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is your belief. Your answer seems basic yet everyone should follow your belief because you said "Neither of them is God". Who are the "them"? Or what is the "them"?

Perhaps you should read the whole post before you try to answer it.

This also defers the question. You have told others that mere men wrote the scriptures; yet you expect me to believe that Newton was more then a man and his words are by far superior. In that case,

No, that is the answer. And where did I ever say that Newton was more than a man?

"Newton was raised on Scripture, which inculcated a lifelong devotion to it. He placed its authority above all others and knew it better than most divines. Despite taking the Church of England's authority very seriously, if ever he felt that the church veered from Holy Writ, he always deferred to Scripture."

(Isaac Newton on the Trinity 'Hypothesis' | Theology)

So, if he held scripture so high; shouldn't we all?

No. That is an appeal to authority error. First off you picked a rather biased source. Second, even if true it is still an appeal to authority error. Newton was extremely bright. He was still imperfect. He believed in alchemy so should we respect those debunked belief?

Newton is respected for the work that he did that was correct. And there was an amazing amount of that.


Let's turn the question around. What do you believe and what evidence do you have that supports your beliefs?

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Perhaps you should read the whole post before you try to answer it. No, that is the answer. And where did I ever say that Newton was more than a man? No. That is an appeal to authority error. First off you picked a rather biased source. Second, even if true it is still an appeal to authority error. Newton was extremely bright. He was still imperfect. He believed in alchemy so should we respect those debunked belief? Newton is respected for the work that he did that was correct. And there was an amazing amount of that. Let's turn the question around. What do you believe and what evidence do you have that supports your beliefs?

I believe the Bible to be without error; and the final authority when it comes to truth. At the same time picking a favourite Old Testament verse out of the context of the scriptures as a whole is similar to me referring to evolution as a Big Bang and disregarding the biological use of the term evolution.

Doctors once drilled into patients heads to release sicknesses, and no one thinks doctors are irrelevant today; so likewise some laws that were established in the Old Testament don't fully seem to jive with people today, but were important for a select people namely the jews

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe the Bible to be without error; and the final authority when it comes to truth. At the same time picking a favourite Old Testament verse out of the context of the scriptures as a whole is similar to me referring to evolution as a Big Bang and disregarding the biological use of the term evolution.

Doctors once drilled into patients heads to release sicknesses, and no one thinks doctors are irrelevant today; so likewise some laws that were established in the Old Testament don't fully seem to jive with people today, but were important for a select people namely the jews

Bad Bad analogy. Doctors have learned over the years and fixed many of their past mistakes. How has the Bible learned over the years and fixed its past mistakes?

You can believe the Bible literally but reality disagrees with you.

 

[KWCrazy]

You can believe the Bible literally but reality disagrees with you.

You have a skewed and simplistic view of reality; steeped in the willful ignorance of your rejection of everything not consistent with what you've chosen to believe. The Lord IS reality and the Bible defines reality. Reality is not the fact that you're sitting in a chair, reality is the fact that you were put on this earth with decisions to make. Y0u've made the decision to rebel against the Creator of the universe. You made the decision to believe in defiance of reason that the universe somehow created itself and that nothing that ever happened had a purpose or design. You have chosen to believe in defiance of reason that there are no forces in existence other than those you have personally experienced, so that anyone who has had other experiences must be lying. Reality doesn't disagree with anyone. It simply is. You do not understand it so you can't define it. It is not limited to things physical and observable. It includes entities and principalities you cannot even imagine. It includes the existence of good and evil as real forces, not simply the learned behavior of mutated offspring.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You have a skewed and simplistic view of reality; steeped in the willful ignorance of your rejection of everything not consistent with what you've chosen to believe. The Lord IS reality and the Bible defines reality. Reality is not the fact that you're sitting in a chair, reality is the fact that you were put on this earth with decisions to make. Y0u've made the decision to rebel against the Creator of the universe. You made the decision to believe in defiance of reason that the universe somehow created itself and that nothing that ever happened had a purpose or design. You have chosen to believe in defiance of reason that there are no forces in existence other than those you have personally experienced, so that anyone who has had other experiences must be lying. Reality doesn't disagree with anyone. It simply is. You do not understand it so you can't define it. It is not limited to things physical and observable. It includes entities and principalities you cannot even imagine. It includes the existence of good and evil as real forces, not simply the learned behavior of mutated offspring.

Sorry, but if that is the case you could find physical evidence that supported the myths of the Bible.

I made no decision, the evidence made the decision for me.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I will mention again what I listed are the facts. That people disagree with them doesn't stop them from being facts. Get over it to all of you who have useless, weak arguments against these facts mostly based in bias and personal opinions.

 

[KWCrazy]

Sorry, but if that is the case you could find physical evidence that supported the myths of the Bible.

Tell that to the archeologists who have made incredible discoveries by using the descriptions of ancient cities discussed in the Bible.

You have been given examples from the Bible regarding paleontology, astronomy, meteorology, biology, anthropology, hydrology, geology and physics, yet still your closed mind rejects all. A simple cursory reading of the Scriptures demonstrates knowledge that the writers could not possibly have had, but you reject off of that because you've already made up your mind not to believe.

You want proof that God is real, but demanding physical evidence of the supernatural is pure foolishness. You will have your proof one day, but I'm afraid in your case that proof may come too late.

 

[lasthero]

Tell that to the archeologists who have made incredible discoveries by using the descriptions of ancient cities discussed in the Bible.

Such as?

 

[KWCrazy]

I will mention again what I listed are the facts.

They aren't all facts.
Adaptation or microevolution; which is easily observed; works in the opposite direction of evolution; which has never been observed. Repeated deletion never leads to addition, only a reduction from the original. Benevolent mutations have never been shown to advance any species. In fact, as the experiment with fruit flies demonstrated, benevolent mutations may not exist at all.

 

[selfinflikted]

A simple cursory reading of the Scriptures demonstrates knowledge that the writers could not possibly have had[/quote]

Such as...?

 

[Split Rock]

You have a skewed and simplistic view of reality; steeped in the willful ignorance of your rejection of everything not consistent with what you've chosen to believe. The Lord IS reality and the Bible defines reality.

No, the bible is a bunch of books written by fallible men, transcribed by fallible men, translated by fallible men and finally interpreted by fallible men.

Reality is not the fact that you're sitting in a chair, reality is the fact that you were put on this earth with decisions to make.

Both are reality.

Y0u've made the decision to rebel against the Creator of the universe.

Kind of a crazy thing to do, don't you think? I certainly don't view trying to understand the diversity and distribution of life on earth as an insurrection against the supreme being.

You made the decision to believe in defiance of reason that the universe somehow created itself and that nothing that ever happened had a purpose or design.

But its not in "defiance of reason" to believe that a supreme being came out of nothing and created itself?

You have chosen to believe in defiance of reason that there are no forces in existence other than those you have personally experienced, so that anyone who has had other experiences must be lying.

Personally I see people like yourself as deluded, rather than liars.

Reality doesn't disagree with anyone. It simply is. You do not understand it so you can't define it.

Science is the best way of understanding physical reality. You don't understand it, so you cling to a false interpretation of scripture instead. One that makes you fell special and superior.

It is not limited to things physical and observable. It includes entities and principalities you cannot even imagine.

If we cannot imagine them, how can we understand them???

It includes the existence of good and evil as real forces, not simply the learned behavior of mutated offspring.

Personally, I think there is good and evil in all of us. I don't see them as "real forces," battling one another. There is more grey in the world than black and white.

 

[Split Rock]

They aren't all facts.
Adaptation or microevolution; which is easily observed; works in the opposite direction of evolution; which has never been observed. Repeated deletion never leads to addition, only a reduction from the original. Benevolent mutations have never been shown to advance any species. In fact, as the experiment with fruit flies demonstrated, benevolent mutations may not exist at all.

Once again you demonstrate that unilaterally changing definitions does not result in winning an argument. It is a non sequiter to claim that "Adaptation or microevolution; which is easily observed; works in the opposite direction of evolution." How can a variant of evolution work in the opposite direction to evolution?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Tell that to the archeologists who have made incredible discoveries by using the descriptions of ancient cities discussed in the Bible.

You have been given examples from the Bible regarding paleontology, astronomy, meteorology, biology, anthropology, hydrology, geology and physics, yet still your closed mind rejects all. A simple cursory reading of the Scriptures demonstrates knowledge that the writers could not possibly have had, but you reject off of that because you've already made up your mind not to believe.

You want proof that God is real, but demanding physical evidence of the supernatural is pure foolishness. You will have your proof one day, but I'm afraid in your case that proof may come too late.

Some cities have been found. Some cities that were assumed to be certain cities were found. No evidence for miracles have been found.

And I have not "rejected" any evidence. Certain claims have been shown to be false. The challenge is still open for evidence that has passed peer review in a well respected journal.

And claiming that demanding evidence for supposed supernatural events is quite reasonable. If there was an Adam and Even in the last 100,000 years there would be evidence of it. If there was a flood of water over 5 miles high there would be evidence of it. If there was a flood that wiped out almost everything there would be genetic evidence of it. In this case lack of evidence is extremely strong evidence against.

 

[Split Rock]

You have been given examples from the Bible regarding paleontology, astronomy, meteorology, biology, anthropology, hydrology, geology and physics, yet still your closed mind rejects all. A simple cursory reading of the Scriptures demonstrates knowledge that the writers could not possibly have had, but you reject off of that because you've already made up your mind not to believe.

Do you mean like a geocentric solar system with the earth at the center and the sun and moon revolving around the earth to act as lights?