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God being perfect

Hikarifuru

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There is the idea that god has a perfect plan.

How is his plan or actions perfect when his will is so commonly not fullfilled? According to the bible and common christian thought most humans do not go to heaven and all humans live lives were they try to ensure his will is done but it most often it isnt because nature itself is now contrary to his will.

How is a god who almost never accomplishes his purpose perfect?
Say its our fault... but he is still failing to accomplish his desires for us. He supposedly died to save us and he ends up saving almost no one.
 

South Bound

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There is the idea that god has a perfect plan.

How is his plan or actions perfect when his will is so commonly not fullfilled?

For example?

According to the bible...

... which you refuse to cite to back up your claims...

How is a god who almost never accomplishes his purpose perfect?

Your straw-god isn't perfect because you made him up.

He supposedly died to save us and he ends up saving almost no one.

Really? Who has He elected that He didn't save, and how do you know?
 
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Sketcher

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God has his purposes, which he has accomplished or will accomplish, his perfect will, which is how he would have creatures with free will (i.e. humans) act, and his permissive will, which allows for our free will to factor into what happens. It seems like you are confusing God's purposes with his perfect will. Where in the Bible did God declare something to be his purpose, yet fail to accomplish it?
 
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Messy

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There is the idea that god has a perfect plan.

How is his plan or actions perfect when his will is so commonly not fullfilled? According to the bible and common christian thought most humans do not go to heaven and all humans live lives were they try to ensure his will is done but it most often it isnt because nature itself is now contrary to his will.

How is a god who almost never accomplishes his purpose perfect?
Say its our fault... but he is still failing to accomplish his desires for us. He supposedly died to save us and he ends up saving almost no one.

Imagine a perfect man who wants to date a woman and she doesn't want him, instead goes to the bad neighbour. Does that make the perfect man imperfect, should he force her? The universe is perfect, that doesn't have free will.
It is His will that everyone gets saved, but we must pray. His Body on earth isn't perfect, otherwise He could use our body like He did His own when He was on earth and a lot more people would get saved. But the sons of God will stand up and we will have a world revival and billions saved, otherwise it makes no sense.
 
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Hikarifuru

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They are the same thing... though you can desire two conflicting things.

Then he fails save men, he fails to win their hearts ( almost all of them ) and he did try.

Very simply... he ends up destroying almost everyone after trying to save them and you call him perfect?
 
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dcalling

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I think the Bible states God is "The way, the truth, the life". he is very unique as well, that we engineers write programs that do exactly what we tell the computer to do, but God creates humans to be able to do (or try) whatever they want to do.

I doubt the Bible every says God is all powerful, or God is prefect, since prefect is so hard to define.
 
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Abandoned Barns

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There is the idea that god has a perfect plan.

How is his plan or actions perfect when his will is so commonly not fullfilled?

I realize that you will take it as a cop out, but I'm not so sure that any of us, in this world, could ever hope to understand the mind of God well enough to accurately say that we could know his plan, will or purpose. We observe the world and the happenings in it through the blinders of our own limited existence and experience. Like the horses pulling the buggy rides in Charleston, we take in the world, and try to understand it, with only those few things we see directly in front of us. Now the driver can see outside the narrow view experienced by the horse and understands to a far greater extent why they must stop or turn or speed up or slow down. The horse, who likely thinks the purpose of the entire journey is to make it back to the stall and get some oats, necessarily must trust and listen to the driver in order to safely navigate the narrow, busy Charleston streets.

I sometimes like to think of God's plan for me as working sort of like the Tom Tom on my phone. I want to get somewhere and ask Tom Tom to help me do so. Almost instantly, Tom Tom provides for me a 'plan' to get there, if I follow the plan it takes me where I need to, but often I'll forget to listen or have the music up too loud to hear or simply convince myself that I know a better shortcut which invariably leaves me into the frantic state of turning this way and that, no longer even trying to make it to my original destination, but rather now only trying to make it out of some of the worst ares in Charleston alive. But, Tom Tom never gives up on me. It never says "that's it! You had your chance to follow. Now you're on your own!". Almost as soon as I make a wrong turn, there on my phone, is a new plan. It never forgets my original destination or stops trying to help me get there.

God's plan for me woks a little like that too, except God, not being bound by space or time, doesn't need to wait for me to take a wrong turn before altering his plan for me. To him, it's already happened and the plan is already in place. I don't know Bo, it's part of the big math equation that we don't understand. But we don't have to, we just have to trust that the guy with the reins does and that in his wisdom he's guiding our walk in the right direction.

So there you have it; two similes for the price of one. I hope that was responsive. Good to talk to you.
 
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Hikarifuru

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Do never determine to do something in spite of the fact that you desire to do something different?

Its entirely possible to desire/want two or conflicting things and a choice is made. That doesnt mean dont desire or will to do one.
 
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Joshua260

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Its entirely possible to desire/want two or conflicting things and a choice is made. That doesnt mean dont desire or will to do one.

Maybe you misunderstood me. I'm asking if you have ever made the willful choice to do something (that you did NOT desire/want to do) while desiring to do something else?
 
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Abandoned Barns

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Well doesnt he purpose/will for people do be ok and to be saved? And most of the time they arent and people just consider theirself or others to be failures.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "be ok". If you're asking if he wants us to be happy in serving him then sure, but if you're asking does he want us to feel good about ourself when we're messing up then no. What's the saying; sometimes bad self esteem is just good common sense. If your asking why he lets bad things happen to good people, then again I think that I can't judge what I can't understand. I can be angry that the traffic light at which I've been sitting for five minutes, seems to have skipped my turn and say "God, why would you do this to me when I'm already late for work" but never understand that the malfunction prevented me from being involved in a fatal wreck. There's just too many variables for me to take in in order to understand the mind of God.

Isaiah 55 (NASB) said:
[8]“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.
[9]“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

As far as wanting us all to choose to be saved, I believe (and there are Christians who would disagree with me) that He does:

1 Timmothy 2 said:
[1]First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, [2]for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. [3]This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, [4]who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

But again it's the "choose to" which complicates things. To him it means nothing if we don't freely choose to love him. Remember I believe that God is not bound to space and time linearly as we are, so to Him the moment I accepted him into my heart occurs simultaneously with each moment I deny or fail him. He understands my entire life; every thought and every action as a single instant. So it was not exactly a surprise to him when I was saved. It was not a surprise to him when you chose not to believe. It will not be a surprise to him if you or I ever decide to change our positions on the matter. Neither of us think we ever could or would but can any of us ever tell with one hundred percent certainty what the future will bring?

Any of us,of course, except God. He already knows. All the decisions we've made, all the decisions we've yet to make, in a single instance; he understands. So we can fuss about what we think is fair or not fair about some being saved and some not, and whether or not that means he's failed to achieve his purpose, but without truly understanding that purpose, how could we ever say?

It boils down to faith. Faith that the horseman will get me safely back to the stable. Faiththat my tom-tom will get me safely to my destination. Faith that God has a plan to safely bring me home. Or faith that he doesn't - either way, will have faith in something.
 
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Hikarifuru

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Maybe you misunderstood me. I'm asking if you have ever made the willful choice to do something (that you did NOT desire/want to do) while desiring to do something else?

That i did it means i willed and desired to do it, even if i desired and willed something else too.
 
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