What would have happened had Adam and Eve never sinned?

[NannaNae]

If Adam and Eve never sinned, and lived an eternal life in the Garden of Eden without death, would they have eventually had children in the Garden? If there were no death, wouldn't it just be a matter of time before humans animals and insects overpopulate the planet due to reproduction without anyone or anything dying? Or do we assume they would not have had any off spring; that God had no intention for them or the animals to reproduce. If that is the case, is it safe to assume they were originally created without sex organs?

Does anybody know of anything in the bible that might address this? Your thoughts?

Ken

to over populate the earth when there was no sea? I think for the 7000 years he gave us this world..... we wouldn't have filled it yet..
he already said he would make a new heaven and a new earth. and who is to say that he could have just kept creating / adding to the mass of the earth to make it larger and larger till it filled the whole universe. MY God is the laws of physics..

NO he didn't need men to sin !
he created animals to have babies.. of course he created adam ands EVE to have babies . but they just didn't mature until way late.. like 100 years old or more .. maybe because they were too busy learning and working .
when they were created to live for ever and they didn't die there is no advantage to having kids young.. "young" would have had no advantage over being "old" parents ..



we just would have kept learning and growing like we will in the 1000 year reign until the point we can dwell with the with the fullness of God and all his holiness in the 8th day .. and not just live with him in his humanity.

 

[Ken-1122]

Important point: myth does not mean not true. Truth can exist independent from historic fact.

It would seem relevant to learn what Jews have said about these things, when they teach them. They held these stories for literally only God knows how long, before they were ever even written down, let alone in any form we know about. And it is my understanding that these things were never taught as literal history.

Myth is actually the term I used to discribe an untrue story used to make a point. Do you believe the Adam and Eve story was an actual historical event?

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

They are ish and isha respectively. Adam the male issue and Eve the female issue. Adam began bisexual, then God separated the female portion from Adam and formed Eve and the two were one flesh. Adam was the first son of God - see Luke 3-38. The other races, except for Ishmael were already on earth. Ezekiel chapter 31 goes into detail how the Egyptians (Assyrians), were already a great and mighty empire when God was preparing the garden for Adam. Asiatics were also on earth, probably the first race on earth as their history and archeology shows.

So there were already other people on Earth before Adam and Eve? Were these other people sinless at this time?

Adam and Eve would have procreated eventually, no matter where they were. Eve was seduced by Satan and bore Cain, Abel was from Adam, but it was not a perfect gestation, which is why seven gestations later, Adam proclaims that Seth, now, was his true seed to carry on. Cain and Abel were fraternal twins: an egg fertilized by two different sperm that split. One being Cain, Satan's offspring, and Abel being Adam's offspring. The initial sin was that Eve allowed Satan to inseminate her and thus establishing Satan's seed on earth which remains to this day

So sin didn't enter the world via Adam eating the forbidden fruit, it entered the world when Eve decided to have sexual relations with Satan and have a child by him? Is this correct?

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

to over populate the earth when there was no sea? I think for the 7000 years he gave us this world..... we wouldn't have filled it yet..
he already said he would make a new heaven and a new earth. and who is to say that he could have just kept creating / adding to the mass of the earth to make it larger and larger till it filled the whole universe. MY God is the laws of physics..

NO he didn't need men to sin !
he created animals to have babies.. of course he created adam ands EVE to have babies . but they just didn't mature until way late.. like 100 years old or more .. maybe because they were too busy learning and working .
when they were created to live for ever and they didn't die there is no advantage to having kids young.. "young" would have had no advantage over being "old" parents ..



we just would have kept learning and growing like we will in the 1000 year reign until the point we can dwell with the with the fullness of God and all his holiness in the 8th day .. and not just live with him in his humanity.

So you feel God would have kept expanding the size of the Earth as needed to keep up with the population growth?

Ken

 

[NannaNae]

So you feel God would have kept expanding the size of the Earth as needed to keep up with the population growth?

Ken

well...I'm not the laws of physics HE is and I can dream up that answer..

NOW I am convinced he would have had a way better plan to accommodate all of usIF there wasn't enough room , which I doubt completely that it would have been needed . IF man would have done things by the plan..
I mean how much room does mankind really take up if we were in a perfect world with tons of giant food. the curse caused us to be hungry and cold.
He has changed the face of the planet at least 4 or 5 times with mankind standing on it after the fall .

If we were all in relationship with him and still his family... and IF He needed to make the world bigger he could do that in one day if we stayed out of his way.

 

[Ken-1122]

well...I'm not the laws of physics HE is and I can dream up that answer..

NOW I am convinced he would have had a way better plan to accommodate all of usIF there wasn't enough room , which I doubt completely that it would have been needed . IF man would have done things by the plan..
I mean how much room does mankind really take up if we were in a perfect world with tons of giant food. the curse caused us to be hungry and cold.
He has changed the face of the planet at least 4 or 5 times with mankind standing on it after the fall .

If we were all in relationship with him and still his family... and IF He needed to make the world bigger he could do that in one day if we stayed out of his way.

Thanks for your perspective

Ken

 

[Received]

If the Eden story is myth, what other stories in the bible are myth? How do you decipher truth from myth when reading the bible?

Ken
PS Didn't Jesus say something about "through one man sin entered the world" If this wasn't Adam, who was this one man?

Adam, taken as a myth. BTW, myth can contain truth, just not facts. It's not rationality per se that determines the need for myth not to be myth, or even that we should know down to each iota what is taken as myth and what is taken as factually true, but fundamentalist reasoning. Augustine, an early church father, never took the entire creation story of Genesis literally; this only started in the early 20th century with the rise of fundamentalism.

 

[Ken-1122]

Adam, taken as a myth. BTW, myth can contain truth, just not facts. It's not rationality per se that determines the need for myth not to be myth, or even that we should know down to each iota what is taken as myth and what is taken as factually true, but fundamentalist reasoning. Augustine, an early church father, never took the entire creation story of Genesis literally; this only started in the early 20th century with the rise of fundamentalism.

But if one can assume the Genesis story isn't completely true, what's to stop someone from assuming the story of Jonah, Noah, or even the resurrection of Christ as not completely true?

Ken

 

[oi_antz]

But if one can assume the Genesis story isn't completely true, what's to stop someone from assuming the story of Jonah, Noah, or even the resurrection of Christ as not completely true?

Ken

Is that how it begins? These claims are made by different people, mind you.

 

[Ken-1122]

Is that how it begins? These claims are made by different people, mind you.

Not quite sure of what you are saying; are you saying the books written by Moses are not completely true?

Ken

 

[oi_antz]

Not quite sure of what you are saying; are you saying the books written by Moses are not completely true?

Ken

Maybe. How do you know Genesis 1 and 2 are written by Moses, and if so, where did he get his information?

 

[Ken-1122]

Maybe. How do you know Genesis 1 and 2 are written by Moses, and if so, where did he get his information?

If Moses did not write Genesis 1 & 2, who did? And where do you think he got his information?

Ken

 

[oi_antz]

If Moses did not write Genesis 1 & 2, who did? And where do you think he got his information?

Ken

I actually don't know. This is why I don't consider it as reliable as the people who say they have seen Jesus post-crucifixion. We know they were real and that their claims are not myth. Maybe lies or delusions, but that is why I say that you have to consider these things when trying to decide whether to believe it is a factual or mythical claim.

 

[theophilus777]

If Moses did not write Genesis 1 & 2, who did? And where do you think he got his information?

Ken

These are interesting questions,. but more important is how these texts have been used by those who practice the religion, which would be Jews far more than Christians. If you want to understand this stuff, I urge you to seek out how Jews teach it.

 

[oi_antz]

These are interesting questions,. but more important is how these texts have been used by those who practice the religion, which would be Jews far more than Christians. If you want to understand this stuff, I urge you to seek out how Jews teach it.

What are the main differences as you have seen it?

 

[theophilus777]

What are the main differences as you have seen it?

I see no parallel in Judaism to Christian fundamentalists or creationists or Bible literalists. I have heard that the latter does exist in a very small number, but this is only a rumor to me, as I have never encountered any such creature. Once I learned this I really had to ponder that for a while.

Once you look at these stories from the standpoint of "what are they trying to teach?" Things fall into place much better. It allows Faith to grow, I have found. The creation story is especially interesting, when you pursue hermeneutics. And the fact that it has similarity to other stories from the region really only strengthens the case for Divine Authorship. (or inspiration, if you prefer)

I think where we can't allegorize things, is when we come to Christ's physical Resurrection.

 

[oi_antz]

I see no parallel in Judaism to Christian fundamentalists or creationists or Bible literalists. I have heard that the latter does exist in a very small number, but this is only a rumor to me, as I have never encountered any such creature. Once I learned this I really had to ponder that for a while.

Once you look at these stories from the standpoint of "what are they trying to teach?" Things fall into place much better. It allows Faith to grow, I have found. The creation story is especially interesting, when you pursue hermeneutics. And the fact that it has similarity to other stories from the region really only strengthens the case for Divine Authorship. (or inspiration, if you prefer)

I think where we can't allegorize things, is when we come to Christ's physical Resurrection.

Thanks for that. What about Noah and The Exodus from the perspective of the same Jews?

 

[theophilus777]

Those stories I'm less familiar with their renderings of, but I am curious. I would think the Exodus in particular they would be adamant about, but I've seen lots of room for divergence in their thinking there, which I found surprising.

 

[oi_antz]

Those stories I'm less familiar with their renderings of, but I am curious. I would think the Exodus in particular they would be adamant about, but I've seen lots of room for divergence in their thinking there, which I found surprising.

The obvious question is where does that line get drawn and why.