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Trying to figure out what's wrong with these people.

Begat

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I've been told that I have a ministerial gift for "people". Although I'm not the 'popular girl' either in church or out, and I'm in nobody's 'inner circle', I find myself not infrequently consoling people and offering them advice. This carries relational risks and I take them: I've never been popular; I don't expect people to like my advice, but I do strive to make it honest, truthful, and what they might find if they turned to the Bible for answers (and the Bible is no respecter of people's egos!).

Now the issue is that there are about 3 individuals whom I have known as friends, whom I suspect have been emotionally damaged in some way, and they all lash out at me in the same way when they reveal things to me and I try to help them. I'm trying to understand them so that I can know how to interact with them and try to bring healing to them. There is one with whom I interact still; I met them all in different places and have moved into a totally different part of the country now.

Could someone help me identify their condition?

They tend to be very clingy and accept me as their bosom chum, and then I'll say something (usually a word of advice, or a comment about something meant for their good or for someone else's), and then they'll suddenly get extremely offended. Not offended in the sense that an awkward look crosses their face (and I die a little inside) and then vanishes, and then things turn a little frostier for a while. That's what I'd consider normal for a healthy twenty-something, and one whose patience and forbearance in love - in this case with a well-meaning twenty-something like myself whose ability to exercise discretion is still in the making - perhaps has a little growing of its own to do. Nobody's perfect; I don't pretend to be. I just know when my heart - or my head - aches for someone's situation, and it hurts me not to tell them what I know to be true. It's like watching a character in a film who's about to walk off a cliff or touch a live electric wire, and you want to shout at the screen, "Don't do it!"

No; by offended, I mean, offended in the sense that they actually start protesting in a resentful or aggressive tone, and when I try to explain what I meant, and that it was only because I cared for their good, I get accusatory labels slapped on me that I'm shamed into accepting even though I really meant to help them, because I ached for them. If I try to protest that I care about them and mean to help them, they present reasons why I must be lying. It is possible to go from being someone's best friend to the devil incarnate in the space of a single conversation. One person presented a load of extracts from past conversations I'd had with her that she'd memorized and assorted and slanted in such a way as to 'prove' to me that I had really meant to be malicious!

People who have done this have tended to have had emotionally scarred pasts, at least by their own evaluations. I think I have met three so far. They have always seemed vulnerable, emotionally volatile, and by the time I've got round to them they have been involved in conflicts with people which have led to them being marginalized or gossipped about by them and sometimes also the social circles associated with them. Certainly, they seem very sure of whom their enemies are, and they seem very anxious to evade certain individuals either in person or in conversation. They are untrusting, secretive, quick to judge, grudge-bearers and they tend to have a bleak outlook on life, and needless to say, they will not accept rebukes meant in love in spite of being some of the harshest critics of others. They seem to always be glancing anxiously over their shoulder. In spite of this, they have tendencies to get very excitable about things and can be very fun to be around when in a good mood and when the thing they are excitable about is something relatively superficial; they are capricious and clingy and make outward displays of affection; they're touchy-feely and call you pet names, etc. They are magnetic and likeable. One of them had serious self-harm issues, bulimia and had been hospitalized for her suicide attempts - I didn't get close enough to the others to find out if they had any history of these things.

On my part, I feel a pastoral need to be honest with people who open themselves up to me. When people present their issues and lives to me, I'm going to listen and offer suggestions, and it would hurt my conscience if the advice I gave them were the same flattering, ego-boosting tripe that others give; the sort of advice that really only convinces someone that they're right, rather than helping them to appreciate the truth of the matter, and untangle the knot of wrongdoings that's obscuring it, and encouraging them to do the right thing in response. Scripture and its wisdom aren't meant to tickle your ears; The Word of God is a sword, and it cuts deep. I know that it can be hard to for people to accept that they are capable of being both the wronged and the wronger, and I know it can make people frostier towards you when you try and make them understand their situation, when the real picture of a dispute or a problem is seldom flattering for anyone involved. Frostiness is sometimes the price you pay, and I'm prepared to pay it and to go on encouraging the people who confide in me to seek truth and wisdom, and to crucify the flesh and its desires when settling their disputes - especially its desire to be indisputably right (and do I try to be tactful about this, even if there is much room for improvement).

You can probably sense my own pain at all of this, but I want to know what's wrong with these people, because ultimately, my pain isn't what's most important here. We all make errors of tact and discretion, but Bible-believing, Spirit-filled Christians don't usually react with aggression to impartial advice or rebuke, even when it's not delivered tactfully. Proverbs says that fools do that; and that for a wise person, an honest answer is like a kiss on the lips. I really want to get to the bottom of this. I cannot simply brand these people as fools. What are these people suffering from, and how can I try to heal them, or at least avoid hurting them, whilst being a responsible sister in Christ? What is their condition?
 

AGTG

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If people aren't willing to allow others who care for them genuinely speak into their lives for their own benefit, don't bother. The Holy Spirit doesn't force His wisdom into people's minds.

The sad thing is that there are many people who are too bound by pride to let anyone speak truth to them. Don't force it, and don't feel bad. If you've spoken truthfully and given sound counsel in love, that's all you can do.

Jesus told His disciples that if their peace returned to them when they entered a house, let their peace rest there. Otherwise, shake off the dust off your sandals and move on. It was not on their head that others would not receive them. The responsibility lays with the one who needs the truth, not with the one who shares the truth.

And without the truth, no one can get free. Just be sure you're sharing truth in love.
 
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StephanieSomer

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Giving answers for unasked questions is almost universally considered rude, UNLESS there is a well developed relationship of mutual trust behind it.

Took me a long time to learn this myself. It's not easy sometimes withholding what you know full well would help. However, if what you have to offer is not accepted, you'd be better off not offering it and instead build the relationship to a level where your input is welcome, even without being questioned first.

To do otherwise engenders bitterness. And bitterness closes the relational door.
 
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Begat

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Thanks for your advice, guys. I'm learning this. It doesn't come intuitively. If I'm honest, I'm tempted to call it pride or middle-class snobbery when children of God expect each other to jump through social/relational hoops before they will endure well-meant counsel from each other, which could just be God's way of imparting blessing to them. But that sort of reticence can also be a form of insecurity, or the result of an unhealed wound in people - and that's the reason I'm working with for the moment. These people I'm talking about are extremely wounded. They are not merely snobbish individuals who are so puffed up in their own pride and sense of achievement that they cannot bear to admit that they are sinners in need of grace and healing. But they're not your typical wounded, insecure person, either. Not even as self-styled abuse victims do these people act like other abuse victims I know. Their problem seems to be something else. I just don't know what their deeper wound is.

In the scenarios I'm thinking of, I had very intimate friendships with the people in question. In fact, the friendships seemed to grow in intimacy at a pace that was unnaturally fast. No, by the time I'd tried to help most of them they had already poured out their life stories and all their hurts to me. This is why I'm asking what it is that these people have. They all seem to be alike - forming intense, intimate friendships very quickly, wearing their sufferings on their sleeve - sometimes in an exhibitionist manner. They do it almost in a flirtatious manner, if that's possible - as if they are actively trying to solicit my affections and attentions and cares by their piteous protestations of their sufferings. The problems are always the fault of some demonized monster of an enemy who damaged them in the past but is no longer in their life (I actually personally knew person in one case, and he was selfish and socially noxious all right, but he too was a man with deep issues, and not the inhuman monster he seemed to be in her eyes). And once I have listened and expressed sorrow and sympathy for their sufferings and given them hugs, and try to move on to some more constructive things that will actually help heal their situation, they reduce me to the dirt under my feet when I suggest that the ongoing burden of victimhood that they feel and express might be at least partially a result of the glut of hatred and unforgiveness stored up in them that they need to hand over to Christ, now that their abuser is no longer abusing them. They stand on their victimhood as if it secured a kind of righteousness for them, and they don't seem to be capable of examining their own hearts for sin and taking care of their own practical holiness - it is as if being victims precludes them from being sinners. Everything they do seems to be justified by their sufferings.

As I say, this is not a pattern I observe in Christian people in general - most people do not react with aggression and accusations of abuse when I try to bring healing to them and happen to have got a bit too close for comfort - they usually just go a bit cold on me. It's just a few individuals who all seem to act in the same way - forming extremely intimate friendships in a short space of time, pouring out their sufferings, 'flirting' with my sympathetic devotions, displaying an intense and implacable hatred for an increasing number of 'enemies' who have abused them, and then when I try to console/help/advise, I am myself accused of being an abuser (and I suspect I am added to their list of abusing enemies). And then they move onto someone else. And that hurts me, because they gained my affections, and gave me the impression that they trusted me, and then they turn on me and tear me down when I try to help them out of their situation. They do not seem to see themselves as fellow sinners with me, because when they perceive that I'm presuming them to be such, and when I suggest that they need to keep working on letting Christ change their hearts, they do not seem to understand that this is what walking in the Spirit naturally entails, and they treat me as a critical, judgemental abuser.

What is the unifying principle behind the way these kinds of people interact? Then maybe I can know how to be more of a help to them.
 
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StephanieSomer

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And once I have listened and expressed sorrow and sympathy for their sufferings and given them hugs, and try to move on to some more constructive things that will actually help heal their situation, they reduce me to the dirt under my feet when I suggest that the ongoing burden of victimhood that they feel and express might be at least partially a result of the glut of hatred and unforgiveness stored up in them that they need to hand over to Christ, now that their abuser is no longer abusing them. They stand on their victimhood as if it secured a kind of righteousness for them, and they don't seem to be capable of examining their own hearts for sin and taking care of their own practical holiness - it is as if being victims precludes them from being sinners. Everything they do seems to be justified by their sufferings.

I know several like that. And you have put your finger on it pretty well.
It's pride.

In their eyes, they have been mistreated and taken advantage of. And they believe they have survived it. So, they see themselves as better than the one who hurt them. This leads to their justification of the feelings they have toward their "abuser".

When you offer anything other than a confirmation of their assessment, you are denying their conviction that they are better people than their tormenters. And, in turn, you are rendered as one of the long line of "abusers".

What they want from you is not your help or sympathy. They want your confirmation that they are justified in their hate and unforgiveness, and thereby proving that they are indeed righteous. However, we both know that before righteousness comes humility.

It is likely the only help you can be to them without drawing their ire and closing the relationship is to listen to them, and offer to pray for their situation. Beyond that, they probably won't be open to any help from you.

It's sad. But, realize that all of us have, or have had, issues with pride. It is ingrained in us. It just displays itself in various ways.
 
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Begat

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Thanks for your wise words, Stephanie. You seem to have had a lot of experience with people, and I imagine that the fact it took you a long time to realise these things might mean that your bank of experience is all the richer.

It seems deceptively obvious to try and fix people like that in a hands-on sort of way, because they get close to you very quickly and appear on the surface to want you to get deeply involved with them. But as you say, contrary to appearances these kinds of people actually require a longer-term game plan and less committed responses to their problems, so it makes sense to make that extra effort to keep relational doors open for the long haul. It's counter-intuitive, but I can see how it could work...
 
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contango

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Thanks for your advice, guys. I'm learning this. It doesn't come intuitively. If I'm honest, I'm tempted to call it pride or middle-class snobbery when children of God expect each other to jump through social/relational hoops before they will endure well-meant counsel from each other, which could just be God's way of imparting blessing to them. But that sort of reticence can also be a form of insecurity, or the result of an unhealed wound in people - and that's the reason I'm working with for the moment.

You really should stop thinking like that.

Before you read any further, how do you feel about my post right now? Are you ready to listen to what I've got to say or starting to wonder who I think I am to talk to you like that? For what it's worth I agree with the paragraph I quoted, with a few reservations.

I'd agree that in some situations a relationship shouldn't be necessary. If a church is doing something that's clearly and unambiguously unbiblical then the leadership should be able to see it, and if they can't see it then I'd hope they would listen to a visitor who was willing to speak up and question it. It would seem a shame if they would only listen to someone who was willing to endure bad teaching and unbiblical practise for a designated period, especially since it leaves the person challenging open to the question of "why didn't you say this three months ago?".

On the other hand it's important for people to know where you're coming from. For example I don't tend to be too free with advice about raising children, simply because I don't have children and therefore can only speak on a theoretical basis. It's also useful when people know that you care and you're speaking in love rather than in judgement. The world is full of people who want to force their opinions on others and belittle others to make themselves feel better.

I know a guy who helps with a youth club and one of the things he always says is very simple - "until they know that you care, they don't care what you know". The relationship issue is partly just about making sure people know that you're sharing because you love them rather than just because you want to kick them when they're down.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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I've been told that I have a ministerial gift for "people".

Awesome

Although I'm not the 'popular girl' either in church or out, and I'm in nobody's 'inner circle', I find myself not infrequently consoling people and offering them advice.

God uses us as we are. God likes to use things that people see as weakness, and add to us strength.

This carries relational risks and I take them: I've never been popular; I don't expect people to like my advice, but I do strive to make it honest, truthful, and what they might find if they turned to the Bible for answers (and the Bible is no respecter of people's egos!).

ok

Now the issue is that there are about 3 individuals whom I have known as friends, whom I suspect have been emotionally damaged in some way, and they all lash out at me in the same way when they reveal things to me and I try to help them. I'm trying to understand them so that I can know how to interact with them and try to bring healing to them. There is one with whom I interact still; I met them all in different places and have moved into a totally different part of the country now.

ok

Could someone help me identify their condition?

They tend to be very clingy and accept me as their bosom chum, and then I'll say something (usually a word of advice, or a comment about something meant for their good or for someone else's), and then they'll suddenly get extremely offended.

Not offended in the sense that an awkward look crosses their face (and I die a little inside) and then vanishes, and then things turn a little frostier for a while.

There are two possibilities here. a) They just want to be loved, and accepted as they are, and don't like advise because it makes them feel like they have a problem. I actually hate people finding fault in me. or b) They have some issues they are not yet ready to change

It is Good that you exercise discretion ... just do your best ... over time you will learn better how to relate, not saying you can't relate now, but we all get better, I can improve too.

I always ask the Holy Spirit to direct my thoughts when talking to some. I suggest that you always ask and rely upon him in your conversations, you will begin to feel the other persons emotions, and God's. Not all the time but when it is important. Be respectful of what God show you.
 
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