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Why such a faith should exist?

Hoshiyya

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" I never really saw MJ as credible because it appeared to be Baptist Theology within the Skin of Judaism "

I agree. However there are two sides to MJ.

There is a gentile part, which is what you described; and there is a Jewish part. This part of MJ is or should view itself as a subgroup of Orthodox Judaism.
 
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visionary

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Expand our vision to see it from the throne of God who looks down on our dot of a planet in His great Universe and see all the people. He wants us all to come to Him. We all have right and wrong ideas about God no matter what the affiliation. We all need to see Him and "know" Him intimately to truly understand what He really requires of us. That take repentance and brushing aside the things of earth, so that we can look into His glory and grace. Fighting over "letters" wouldn't do that.
 
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mercy1061

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I seriously don't think he cares what either of us gentiles really think about the subject.

If he is truly a rabbi, he has the authority to speak for himself. Will it take you nine months to deliver the message ? Will you continue to make excuses for dishonoring torah? All good jewish rabbi's like an intelligent debate, he may respond with a question.

I sure hope you don’t have any. They’ll suffer through years of confusion about their religious identity. I don't doubt that you are really Christian, but how can you possibly be Jewish. I've never known Jews to be so illogical…



…or crude.
When you roll in the mud does the mikveh make you clean?




Yes. Yes I do. Some groups were started in the 1970’s by “heroin-shooting, LSD-using, hippie rock drummers” who went on to go to school at NYU…..



Well that's sort of how it went down..



I'd rather be with a buried near a Chabad rabbi than an emotionally disturbed Baptist pretending to be 'Jewish' on the internet.



You got us. During Shabbos we meet at his place, turn the stove on and fry us up some bacon for BLTs.



Why would I have the slightest concern for honoring the Torah?
How can a gentile know what is logical to a jew? How can a jewish rabbi eat pork?
 
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HannibalFlavius

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" I never really saw MJ as credible because it appeared to be Baptist Theology within the Skin of Judaism "

I agree. However there are two sides to MJ.

There is a gentile part, which is what you described; and there is a Jewish part. This part of MJ is or should view itself as a subgroup of Orthodox Judaism.

Jews for Jesus didn't help?

LOL.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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He doesn't eat pork. I do and its dang good. I love bacon and shellfish.

You say you are a convert to Orthodoxy. What day is the Orthodox Sabbath day?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Noted. My comment- converts to any religion are often difficult people.

We have seen Jewish and also Messianic people discover orthodox Christianity- even one chap from our own forum- because they saw a continuity with Judaism within that tradition, and that's worth noting. Many books have been written to prove a continuity within the Orthodox Church with that of the Levitical priesthood and more. That's all fine and nice, but the fact is that the Jewish root of that tradition has often struggled to survive. Clericalism has basically run the Orthodox Church for centuries and has manifested in endless disputes over jurisdiction and painful warring over customs that has overturned much of the emphasis on the Gospel the original church was endowed with.

This issue, coupled with the union of nationhood and religion which manifests in nationalistic pride (which can turn to anti-semitism easily if the prevailing culture has that seed) has often meant the Orthodox churches are hotbeds of hypocrisy and worldly values. Let's face it, the only place one will see "Christians" having a literal fist fight on tv is when you get two or more competing Orthodox churches brawling over jurisdiction over a custom in a country they aren't even from.

This crazy mix of clericalism and nationalism is not found in the NT. Hence the problem.

IOW- while the Orthodox churches can lay claim to having a clear link to the Jewish root, that just isn't enough to make a place of peace and pilgrimage for every Jew. While some can seek the good within the tradition, some of us can't make the cultural connection nor come to terms with the rampant clericalism and endless unChristian and haughty hubris about "authority" that comes with it.

I think you have experienced some of the flow-on effect of those problems when the near-sighted and poorly taught converts give you a hard time over something that they aren't used to. Well, put on your best Russian accent and yell "is outrage!!!" and they might accept you easier. ;)

I hear ya.

Point: I have been told by more than one version/nationality of Orthodox Christian that I needed to join their church to be "safe". When one thinks that one must adapt the culture and language of whatever nation that church comes from, the proposition becomes rather akin to assimilation. I don't want that in my life. I just tell them the old rule "lex orandi, lex credendi" and that I don't believe their prayers against the Jews and consider them heretical, and thus I am prevented from joining them. I think deep down they know they need to repent of them and begin to open the door a little to welcome back the original messengers of the Gospel.

I agree with much that you have written. There are very few Jews within Orthodoxy and the few there are assimilate into a gentile Church to "fit in". Yet the Greeks have their Greek heritage, the Russians theirs, why can not the Jews have theirs? Instead we are called names. Jews in the early Church looked at gentiles that wanted to be Christians with skepticism and now it seems it is the reverse. There IS an Orthodox Priest in Jerusalem that celebrates the Liturgy in Hebrew and it is incredible! Shalom
 
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Evangelos

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Yes there is a Hebrew Divine liturgy. Now why is it that I get beat up on for my tastey pork chops. I didnt holf a gun to your heads and say "we have our veys of making you eat."

Culture is fine but it essentially is a guidline and 'Religion' is rule. Kasrut isnt culture is it? A Mitzvah isnt culture. So I dont agree and I think it breaks the possibility of communion. This is why MJ is at odds with the other churches.
 
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ContraMundum

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I agree with much that you have written. There are very few Jews within Orthodoxy and the few there are assimilate into a gentile Church to "fit in". Yet the Greeks have their Greek heritage, the Russians theirs, why can not the Jews have theirs? Instead we are called names. Jews in the early Church looked at gentiles that wanted to be Christians with skepticism and now it seems it is the reverse. There IS an Orthodox Priest in Jerusalem that celebrates the Liturgy in Hebrew and it is incredible! Shalom

Good work! :thumbsup:
 
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ContraMundum

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Yes there is a Hebrew Divine liturgy. Now why is it that I get beat up on for my tastey pork chops. I didnt holf a gun to your heads and say "we have our veys of making you eat."

If you had have done your research on the treatment of Jews who converted to Christianity in the Middle Ages you would revoke that comment- it used to happen, minus the gun of course. In some conversion processes in certain times and places the rejection of kashrus and the practice of bris milah was considered a sign of loyalty to Christ and the New Covenant. The obvious problem is that Jesus never rejected kashrus and Jewish Christians didn't either.

Culture is fine but it essentially is a guidline and 'Religion' is rule. Kasrut isnt culture is it? A Mitzvah isnt culture. So I dont agree and I think it breaks the possibility of communion. This is why MJ is at odds with the other churches.

But you're not making any sense at all. People who actually know the Orthodox Christian faith will tell you that a) The Sabbath is still the 7th Day (which you seem to have failed to know when asked above, oddly) and b) keeping kosher or performing mitvot is not an impairment to communion unless it is done as a misguided replacement for grace. As a matter of fact: the last Orthodox priest to come to my place for dinner complimented me on the mezuzah on my door and said every Jewish Christian should have one.

You should know this stuff already- why don't you???

Are you really up for this or still learning your newly chosen religion?
 
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ContraMundum

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I cant take this seriously. You actually think you are morally superior because of your diet? Man oh man they must have butchered your new testement when they translared it from english to Hebrew.

Not one Messianic Jew I know believes that. Take the straw man outside to scare the crows, don't drag him in here.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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But you're not making any sense at all. People who actually know the Orthodox Christian faith will tell you that a) The Sabbath is still the 7th Day (which you seem to have failed to know when asked above, oddly) and b) keeping kosher or performing mitvot is not an impairment to communion unless it is done as a misguided replacement for grace. As a matter of fact: the last Orthodox priest to come to my place for dinner complimented me on the mezuzah on my door and said every Jewish Christian should have one.

You should know this stuff already- why don't you???

Are you really up for this or still learning your newly chosen religion?

:thumbsup:
 
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