Is transgender a lie?

[Skybringr]

If we're going to talk "genital mutilation" I feel obligated to point out that Moses was pro-circumcision.

What exactly does circumcision unto a holy faith have to do with sex reassignment?

The more you all go off on tangents, making these sort of observations, the more it just makes your end look bad.
Defending sex change via circumcision is, well.. I'd even be prepared to call it blasphemous to be perfectly honest.

 

[wanderingone]

What exactly does circumcision unto a holy faith have to do with sex reassignment?

The more your lot go off on tangents, making these sort of observations, the more it just makes your end look bad.

It's not medically necessary and is done based on ones personal beliefs...I thought we didn't want people to go around cutting parts of the body up based on "feelings"

BTW are people here opposed to "plastic" surgery in general... removing extra toes and fingers, removing vestigial tails.... since so much of it is about appearances and feelings?

 

[wanderingone]

I don't need the bible to tell me to use mutilation as treatment is abusive to the mentally ill.

So... you have years of education in the appropriate treatment of specific medical conditions? I've encountered plenty of Christians who tell me that treatment for depression isn't necessary, that if one is truly faithful they would never be clinically depressed and medication isn't useful for treatment of clinical depression and bipolar disorders. Who gets to interpret what is and isn't mentioned in the Bible as a reason to be for or opposed to something?

 

[wanderingone]

You'd better be more concerned about what Voldemort thinks. He looks more powerful..

He could use a nose job ... we should consult Moses about it...

 

[selfinflikted]

What exactly does circumcision unto a holy faith have to do with sex reassignment?

Mutilation is mutilation, remember?

 

[selfinflikted]

He could use a nose job ... we should consult Moses about it...

Good point about plastic surgery. I would also like to know what those against GRS think about having extra fingers or toes removed so that a person can "feel" normal. Surely, if GRS is out, so is that.

 

[Skybringr]

So... you have years of education in the appropriate treatment of specific medical conditions? I've encountered plenty of Christians who tell me that treatment for depression isn't necessary, that if one is truly faithful they would never be clinically depressed and medication isn't useful for treatment of clinical depression and bipolar disorders. Who gets to interpret what is and isn't mentioned in the Bible as a reason to be for or opposed to something?

You all keep falling back on this 'years of education/medical science/etc etc' as if it's supposed to mean something.

Medical science has a lot of dubious and questionable things within it worthy of scrutinizing.

There being no evidence for transgenderism is simply a fact. They pretty much just gave people what they wanted. If esteemed psychiatrists can come right out and say it, then that means something.

Big Pharma produces a lot of so called medicine that is patently just bad for people. This includes medicines which deal with bi-polar, ADD, and so on.
And they have no discretion whatsoever. They hand out these 'medications' like Pez dispensers.

 

[Cute Tink]

Again, exceptions are not the rule. I can tell if they are really male or female, even if they are cross dressed or had surgery and hormone treatments.

My point is that you assume that the truth is what you think it is.

Nice assumption that you will always know. Their are some tells because of hormonal effects from puberty. Some younger people are never going to have to suffer through the wrong puberty, so those tells won't be there.

AGain, truth is not dictated by their own perception of themselves, or my perception of how they look. Truth existrs outside our perceptions, so chromosomes would dictate the matter whther we perceive their existence or not.

And we don't routinely examine chromosomes of people before going with what they "feel" about themselves anyway. The fact is that the vast majority of people don't notice a difference between their sex and gender because they match. We aren't trying to make the exception into the rule, we are saying there are exceptions to the rule.

Again, I never made such a claim. I am just really opposed to mutilating mentally ill people.

Because you are certain that a) it is mutilation and b) we are just mentally ill. You won't listen to any reasoning to the contrary. I didn't say you made the claim, but that it is implied by your closed-minded approach to the issue.

 

[Cute Tink]

There being no evidence for transgenderism is simply a fact. They pretty much just gave people what they wanted. If esteemed psychiatrists can come right out and say it, then that means something.

That is factually incorrect. The current method of treatment is not the first one chosen. The approach that your "esteemed" psychiatrist wants to go back to the first, failed approach does say something. What it means that he came out and said something. It does not mean that he really does know what he is talking about. However, this portion of your post reaffirms that you do not know what you are talking about.

 

[abacabb3]

So... you have years of education in the appropriate treatment of specific medical conditions?

Nope, but I have empathy and don't want people being butchered.

 

[selfinflikted]

Nope, but I have empathy and don't want people being butchered.

Even if said "butchery" leads to happiness for an otherwise suffering individual?

How do you feel about a person born with an abnormal number of fingers on one hand? Do you support plastic surgery to have a 6th removed so that a person can be "normal" and have a hand with five fingers?

 

[Skybringr]

That is factually incorrect. The current method of treatment is not the first one chosen. The approach that your "esteemed" psychiatrist wants to go back to the first, failed approach does say something. What it means that he came out and said something. It does not mean that he really does know what he is talking about. However, this portion of your post reaffirms that you do not know what you are talking about.

I've been asking for evidence for about the past week going in and out of this subject.

There is none.

You all are apparently the ones who don't know what they are talking about. If it's so 'factually incorrect', surely you have a SINGLE fact to show that transgender isn't a myth.

 

[abacabb3]

My point is that you assume that the truth is what you think it is.

On the issue of gender, it is so plain, I make no apologies for not delving it into further. I don't need to go all into it to prove the sky is blue. Such things are elementary.

Nice assumption that you will always know. Their are some tells because of hormonal effects from puberty. Some younger people are never going to have to suffer through the wrong puberty, so those tells won't be there.

My estimate was 90%.

And we don't routinely examine chromosomes of people before going with what they "feel" about themselves anyway.

Feelings don't determine reality.

Because you are certain that a) it is mutilation

Well, it by definition is.

... and b) we are just mentally ill....

Honest question: Why wouldn't you be mentally ill, like a schizophrenic? You think things that are not true, it makes your life sadder and more difficult, and it is the exception and not the rule, meaning it is a deficiency not the norm. I think it is assuredly mental illness, as real as my brother's schizophrenia. Doesn't mean I hate you or him, but we all have different problems. I am not about to call a problem normal.

 

[Cute Tink]

I've been asking for evidence for about the past week going in and out of this subject.

There is none.

You all are apparently the ones who don't know what they are talking about. If it's so 'factually incorrect', surely you have a SINGLE fact to show that transgender isn't a myth.

You have not asked for any evidence as far as I have seen. Not once. Quote where you requested it please. All I have seen from you is declarations that there is no evidence. Since you have been provided evidence in other topics and completely ignored it, I saw no point in again providing evidence. You will wave it away, without consideration, because you have one guy with degrees and titles who chooses to believe as you do.

Why don't you address anything I've brought up about what your one "expert" has to say? I've made several points about him and your response is ....?

By your reasoning, you haven't responded to my points because you know your "expert" is completely wrong.

 

[Skybringr]

You have not asked for any evidence as far as I have seen. Not once. Quote where you requested it please. All I have seen from you is declarations that there is no evidence. Since you have been provided evidence in other topics and completely ignored it, I saw no point in again providing evidence. You will wave it away, without consideration, because you have one guy with degrees and titles who chooses to believe as you do.

Why don't you address anything I've brought up about what your one "expert" has to say? I've made several points about him and your response is ....?

By your reasoning, you haven't responded to my points because you know your "expert" is completely wrong.

If a psychiatrist says there is no evidence- not in some fanaticism or rebellion against the field, but in plain recognizance and in front of all other psychiatrists- then there is no evidence.

It's as simple as that. There doesn't need to be evidence to support sex reassignment, just like there doesn't need anything for any other cosmetic surgery.
There only needs to be the desire, and *boom*.

That's all it was, and that's all it is. There is no evidence, the only thing you have have are brain scans of men who want to be women develop in the patterns resulting from their behaviors.

That is not evidence, the psychiatrist I presented would be aware of this- anybody with an inclination to proper science would be aware of this- it is not evidence. There is none.

 

[selfinflikted]

If a psychiatrist says there is no evidence- not in some fanaticism or rebellion against the field, but in plain recognizance and in front of all other psychiatrists- then there is no evidence.

It's as simple as that. There doesn't need to be evidence to support sex reassignment, just like there doesn't need anything for any other cosmetic surgery.
There only needs to be the desire, and *boom*.

That's all it was, and that's all it is. There is no evidence, the only thing you have have are brain scans of men who want to be women develop in the patterns resulting from their behaviors.

That is not evidence, the psychiatrist I presented would be aware of this- anybody with an inclination to proper science would be aware of this- it is not evidence. There is none.

Your psychiatrist was also pointed out to be an outcast from the community, and a known homophobe. What about all the other psychiatrists who disagree with this one?

 

[Cute Tink]

On the issue of gender, it is so plain, I make no apologies for not delving it into further. I don't need to go all into it to prove the sky is blue. Such things are elementary.

If that's what you want to assume, I hope it works well for you. Apparently I live in a different reality than you.

My estimate was 90%.

Not in the post I responded to.

Feelings don't determine reality.

"Feeling" is a word used because adequately describing the experience is difficult. Feeling is not a good word to use because it is inaccurate, but no other word really makes sense.

Well, it by definition is.

So are many things you don't have a problem with.

Honest question: Why wouldn't you be mentally ill, like a schizophrenic?

I'm not even sure what that question means. Why would you be mentally ill like a schizophrenic? Because I'm not schizophrenic I suppose.

You think things that are not true

We disagree over whether it is true. The APA and AMA disagree with you as well. Apparently there are a lot more professionals who study these issues who think there is truth to it.

it makes your life sadder and more difficult

Not sure what to say to this part. I'll just stop being trans I guess, because this seems to imply my situation is entirely a choice and I'm some kind of martyr?

and it is the exception and not the rule, meaning it is a deficiency not the norm.

So is being born with diabetes, heart issues, cleft lip, no skull, but do you declare that those things don't exist either? They are all exceptions. They make people's lives more difficult and potentially sadder.

I think it is assuredly mental illness, as real as my brother's schizophrenia. Doesn't mean I hate you or him, but we all have different problems. I am not about to call a problem normal.

Thank you for agreeing it is real, at least.

However, do you agree with the medically accepted treatment for schizophrenia? Do you think all conditions should have the same treatment? Why or why not?

 

[Cute Tink]

If a psychiatrist says there is no evidence- not in some fanaticism or rebellion against the field, but in plain recognizance and in front of all other psychiatrists- then there is no evidence.

So if a psychiatrist says there is evidence, in plain recognizance and in front of all other psychiatrists, then there is evidence. Thank you. Case closed.

There doesn't need to be evidence to support sex reassignment, just like there doesn't need anything for any other cosmetic surgery.
There only needs to be the desire, and *boom*.

Factually incorrect.

That's all it was, and that's all it is. There is no evidence, the only thing you have have are brain scans of men who want to be women develop in the patterns resulting from their behaviors.

Unestablished assumption. I'm still waiting from the other topic for you to provide any evidence that this is possible.

 

[wanderingone]

Nope, but I have empathy and don't want people being butchered.

I don't think that's empathy, you do not appear to share the emotions of or put yourself in the shoes of people who are transgender and wish to have surgery. I don't think transgender people who seek surgery view themselves as being "butchered" Although I guess one could resent having to go through so much to get healthy.

I would think that the feeling of being butchered would go more with having to have something like a hysterectomy or a mastectomy as a treatment for cancer.

 

[Skybringr]

So if a psychiatrist says there is evidence, in plain recognizance and in front of all other psychiatrists, then there is evidence. Thank you. Case closed.

No psychiatrist has claimed that there is indisputable evidence. Ever.