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Sabbath was made for man

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Cribstyl

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It can only make sense that when God first gave the Sabbath it was to men. That fact should not be confused with God's rest from creating all things. God's rest was not for man, it was clearly because God was finished and therefore ended all His work.
The scriptures makes it clear that the people whom God gave the Sabbath, was to stay in their places and do no servile work. We find no dialog or commands for anyone to keep Sabbath in Genesis.

The scriptures made sure we knew that manna and sabbath was a test to prove if the people will keep God's instructions. Exo 16:4 (These freed people were complaining and doubted in Moses and God inspite of all the miracles.)

We know that sabbath was given in the law as both: a memorial of creation (that God finished creation in 6days and rested on the 7th day.)
and as a memorial of freedom from Egypt. (that God delivered the Children of Israel from bondage as slaves to give them rest)

There is nothing moral about the sabbath. (resting 1/7 days)
If God ever said that Sabbath is a sign to distinguish the COI from all other nations of the world, it could never have been a creation ordinance for all people.

Exo 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exo 31:17
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.


:preach::preach::preach:Only a false prophet would contradict God, and say that Sabbath was given for all men at creation.
God clearly said that sabbath was a sign between Himself and the Children of Israel.
If God had made sabbath for all men, why would He change His mind??? And if He did change His mind, why should all men keep what God said was between Himself and one nation?

Taking Jesus out of context is also a familiar deception...
 
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Elder 111

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It can only make sense that when God first gave the Sabbath it was to men. That fact should not be confused with God's rest from creating all things. God's rest was not for man, it was clearly because God was finished and therefore ended all His work..
God did not finish His work on the sixth day. God's work of creating the world was finished but God was not done. Look carefully and see that God did something on the seventh day Sabbath. It was special. Gen 2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (But it is not just a rest is it?)

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

God did something with the seventh day. It is no ordinary day. You really believe that Adam and Eve got up on the Seventh day and God did not let them know that He had blessed and sanctify that day? That they knowing that God had blessed and sanctified that day just did they own thing and ignored God? You would seriously,seriously promote that?


The scriptures makes it clear that the people whom God gave the Sabbath, was to stay in their places and do no servile work. We find no dialog or commands for anyone to keep Sabbath in Genesis.

The scriptures made sure we knew that manna and sabbath was a test to prove if the people will keep God's instructions. Exo 16:4 (These freed people were complaining and doubted in Moses and God inspite of all the miracles.)
In Ex. 16:4 God said He would see if they will keep His law or not. What did they have to do? Keep The Sabbath. There was no mount Sinai yet! So God had a law in relation to the Sabbath. Further more it was the area of the law that was and is a test of obedience. The Sabbath is special to God and the only area that is easy for us to disobey. We can see why we should make God first or why we should be fair to each other but to just take a day off:confused:.

We know that sabbath was given in the law as both: a memorial of creation (that God finished creation in 6days and rested on the 7th day.)
and as a memorial of freedom from Egypt. (that God delivered the Children of Israel from bondage as slaves to give them rest)

There is nothing moral about the sabbath. (resting 1/7 days)
If God ever said that Sabbath is a sign to distinguish the COI from all other nations of the world, it could never have been a creation ordinance for all people.

Exo 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exo 31:17
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
You missed the moral part. Obedience to God. What was moral about not taking of the fruit of the tree in the mist of the Garden? God required it! The Sabbath was blessed from Adam's first full day of life. Is it inconcievable that Adam would be thanking and praising God for life and the creation of all that God gave him? Do you not thing that God purposely gave a memorial in time for us to always remember Him as the creator. That is the the point you have made also. It is His day, blessed and sanctified by Him! Eze. 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.
Are you sanctified by God?


:preach::preach::preach:Only a false prophet would contradict God, and say that Sabbath was given for all men at creation.
God clearly said that sabbath was a sign between Himself and the Children of Israel.
If God had made sabbath for all men, why would He change His mind??? And if He did change His mind, why should all men keep what God said was between Himself and one nation?

Taking Jesus out of context is also a familiar deception...[/quote]
Was Adam not all men?
Did you see a text that says no one else was to keep the Sabbath? I see one that says not even the stranger was to work. Show where God changed His mind!
This look like a changed of mind?
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. (All flesh is one nation?)
 
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God did not finish His work on the sixth day. God's work of creating the world was finished but God was not done. Look carefully and see that God did something on the seventh day Sabbath. It was special. Gen 2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (But it is not just a rest is it?)

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

God did something with the seventh day. It is no ordinary day. You really believe that Adam and Eve got up on the Seventh day and God did not let them know that He had blessed and sanctify that day? That they knowing that God had blessed and sanctified that day just did they own thing and ignored God? You would seriously,seriously promote that?



In Ex. 16:4 God said He would see if they will keep His law or not. What did they have to do? Keep The Sabbath. There was no mount Sinai yet! So God had a law in relation to the Sabbath. Further more it was the area of the law that was and is a test of obedience. The Sabbath is special to God and the only area that is easy for us to disobey. We can see why we should make God first or why we should be fair to each other but to just take a day off:confused:.


You missed the moral part. Obedience to God. What was moral about not taking of the fruit of the tree in the mist of the Garden? God required it! The Sabbath was blessed from Adam's first full day of life. Is it inconcievable that Adam would be thanking and praising God for life and the creation of all that God gave him? Do you not thing that God purposely gave a memorial in time for us to always remember Him as the creator. That is the the point you have made also. It is His day, blessed and sanctified by Him! Eze. 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.
Are you sanctified by God?


:preach::preach::preach:Only a false prophet would contradict God, and say that Sabbath was given for all men at creation.
God clearly said that sabbath was a sign between Himself and the Children of Israel.
If God had made sabbath for all men, why would He change His mind??? And if He did change His mind, why should all men keep what God said was between Himself and one nation?

Taking Jesus out of context is also a familiar deception...
Was Adam not all men?
Did you see a text that says no one else was to keep the Sabbath? I see one that says not even the stranger was to work. Show where God changed His mind!
This look like a changed of mind?
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. (All flesh is one nation?)
Do you think about what you post? As usual you've contradicted yourself.
 
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VictorC

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God did not finish His work on the sixth day. God's work of creating the world was finished but God was not done. Look carefully and see that God did something on the seventh day Sabbath. It was special. Gen 2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (But it is not just a rest is it?)

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

God did something with the seventh day. It is no ordinary day. You really believe that Adam and Eve got up on the Seventh day and God did not let them know that He had blessed and sanctify that day? That they knowing that God had blessed and sanctified that day just did they own thing and ignored God? You would seriously,seriously promote that?
I changed the emphasis in what you posted, in hopes you would see your own monumental blunders - blunders so incredible I wonder if you're bordering on functionally illiterate.

First: "Look carefully and see that God did something on the seventh day Sabbath."
There is no Sabbath recorded anywhere in the Genesis account. It is as if you can't read a Bible, nor even Cribstyl's post that mentions this.

Second: "It is no ordinary day."
The verb "is" denotes the present tense, and is an obvious error when applied to an event in the distant past, namely the seventh day that was well over two million days ago. What is wrong with you? Didn't they teach basic grammar to you in the former British colony of Barbados, a sovereign state that brags about how literate their population is in comparison to their neighbors?

Adam was a first-person witness when He accounted for God's rest on the seventh day. This is probably the primary reason we know about it, aside from divine inspiration given to the Biblical authors later on (and I include Moses in this). And yet you willfully chose to flush all memory of the seventh day down the porcelain pot, ignore God's rest, and mumble incoherent nonsense about the Sabbath that became a periodic shadow of a singular event and didn't exist until ordained thousands of years later. You are nearly illiterate and completely incompetent, Elder111. You sure don't seem able to read what's presented before you and provide a response to it.

The rest of your post continues to build on a premise that is abject error, and I will quote only one short portion of it for comment.
You missed the moral part. Obedience to God. What was moral about not taking of the fruit of the tree in the mist of the Garden? God required it! The Sabbath was blessed from Adam's first full day of life.
You have not shown that Adam did anything on the seventh day, other than witness God's rest. Didn't it ever occur to you that Adam wasn't God? What is wrong with you? There was no obedience called on from Adam in relation to the seventh day. The implied (and missing) verb in your incomplete sentence "Obedience to God" is in the present tense and is absurd, especially in light of deflection to an unrelated subject (forbidden fruit). Your claim "The Sabbath was blessed from Adam's first full day of life" is so far removed from the Biblical account showing there was no Sabbath during Adam's lifetime that you show all of us where your devotion rests:
Only a false prophet would contradict God, and say that Sabbath was given for all men at creation.
Cribstyl is correct in showing Elder111's reliance on a false prophet, both of whom contradict the Biblical record recorded in the Law. And as it is Written,
To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 
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LarryP2

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Elder's and Seventh Day Adventism's theology is based entirely on well-known errors in the King James Version of the Bible. Consider this:

"The chief architect of flood geology was George McCready Price (1870-1963), a Seventh Day Adventist who insisted the Flood was responsible for the Earth’s geological features. Self-taught and lacking a formal education in geology, Price based flood geology on the teachings of his mentor, Ellen G. White (1827-1915), prophetess and founder of the Seventh Day Adventist movement. In numerous trance-like visions, White claimed she was “carried back to the creation” and “Noah’s flood had sculpted the surface of the earth, burying the plants and animals found in the fossil record. It is startling White’s “divine messages” became so influential in 21st century Christianity."

Startling! and I would add my favorite adjective when used in conjunction with "Adventism," which is Fascinating! Watching Adventists' thinking processes is startling and fascinating, like when you can't look away from a terrible car wreck.

Translation: "It is just STARTLING and FASCINATING there could be so many ignoramuses in our day and age who can barely read and write their own name. Or as someone once said, nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."


Here's how Hebrew Linguists deal with the question of whether the Sabbath is a creation ordinance:

The narrative of the seventh day states:

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God … rested … from all his work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy…(Gen. 2:1-3)

Young-Earth View

Young-earth creationists believe the seventh day of God’s rest was a 24-hour period. Based on the statement in Exodus 20:11 (ESV), “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day,” they maintain the creation “week” was a period of seven 24-hour days.

Old-Earth View

Old-earth creationists contend the seventh day is an ongoing period. Although God continues His providential work of preserving and governing His creation, He is at rest in the sense that He is no longer creating. Because the seventh day is a period of indeterminate length, they argue this is evidence the other creation days are not 24-hour periods.

Exegetical Support

The seventh day lacks the concluding “evening/morning” refrain found in the narratives of the other creation days. This indicates God’s Sabbath rest is ongoing. Since God’s Sabbath rest is unending, the seventh day must be unending. The New Testament confirms the seventh day of God’s rest is an ongoing reality. For example in Hebrews, God invites us, present tense, to join Him in His Sabbath rest:

For we who have believed enter that rest, as he said, ‘As I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter my rest,’ although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: ‘And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.’ And again in this passage he said, ‘They shall not enter my rest.' (Hebrews 4:3-5, ESV).

The English translation of Exodus 20:11, “For in six days the LORD made the heavens and earth...” makes it sound as though God created everything within the confines of six calendar-days. However, the preposition “in” does not appear in the original Hebrew. Rather, the verse is more correctly translated, “For six yôms the LORD made...” The addition of “in” originated with the King James Version translation and “played a significant role in the advocacy of the creation days being completed within 144 hours (6x24).”When the verse is correctly translated, it is clear the creation “days” could have been long time periods.

The reference to the Sabbath in Exodus 20 seems to refer to the pattern of “days,” not their duration. The emphasis is on the pattern of work and rest, a ratio of six to one, not on the length of the creation days. Exodus 20:9 addresses the work-week of humans (seven 24-hour days); Exodus 20:11 addresses the work-week of God (seven time periods). Thus, as Hebrew scholar Gleason Archer notes: “By no means does this [Exodus 20:9-11] demonstrate that 24-hour intervals were involved in the first six ‘days,’ any more than the eight-day celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles proves that the wilderness wanderings under Moses occupied only eight days.” In Leviticus 25:4 the pattern of one out of seven is duplicated with six years of planting the land and one year of “Sabbath rest for the land.” This further demonstrates the analogy of our Sabbath to God’s Sabbath does not demand that the creation “week” consisted of seven 24-hour days."

The Six Days of Creation: A Closer Look at Scripture

So Elder's Sabbath-7th-day-of-creation theory rests on several bizarre, freakish and ludicrous assumptions. Or should I say startling and fascinating assumptions? Here's just a few:

1). A head-injured, 3rd grade-educated pathological-liar claimed to have seen in a "vision" the earth's creation and the flood. Yet the description of her "vision" was plagiarized completely from other people's writings;

2). Another ill-educated, unscientific Seventh Day Adventist huckster/numb skull contrived an utterly-baseless "scientific theory" in support of that vision (which vision clearly never happened, given White's incriminating plagiarism) No respectable scientist agrees with that nut's flood theory;

3). Biblical "proof" of a Sabbath Ordinance required a grotesque mis-translation of the original Hebrew during the compilation of the King James Version of the Bible, that was carried over into the ESV. Although the original Hebrew does not translate well into English, modern versions have more accurate translations that strongly dispute a literal 6-day creation;

4). Notwithstanding the obvious well-known translation errors in the King James Version, Elder continues to rely on it as his sole version, since his entire theology is founded on obvious translation errors!!!!.

5). Hilariously, Elder's and Seventh Day Adventism is FOUNDED on the demonstrably-lunatic notion that out-of-context verses that describe prophetic "days," can be interpreted as "years" from the Old Testament. This is inconsistent with their rigidly-literal 6-day Creation theory all by itself (why couldn't creation have happened over 600 years? 6 million years? 6 billion years? I mean, we are talking GOD here, right? For God 6 billion years goes by like instantly, doesn't it?) The Church's horrifying foundation is also based on the King James Version's mis-translation of Daniel 8:14's "2300 days" prophecy. Compounded by the devastatingly-hairbrained move of treating the "days" therein as "years:" Adventists then set those "2300 days" into "2300 YEARS" to arrive at the false prophecy of Jesus's return in 1844, the Church's undisputed foundation. (Nothing of any importance historically happened unfortunately 2300 years BEFORE 1844, so that prophetic starting date was itself obviously yanked out of thin air. ) Since 1844 has been absolutely disproved by both history and Adventism's own theologians - absolutely NOTHING happened in 1844 - the loony-tunes-freak Ellen White contrived an insanely-lunatic doctrine of "Investigative Judgment" to disguise their public embarrassment and groveling humiliation over the botched prophecy. Which Investigative Judgment Doctrine all by itself has been disproved time and time again by every credible Adventist theologian. It does not have the slightest suspicion of any biblical support, and is strongly, polar opposite of the Gospel.

But still.....without the insane "Investigative Judgment," there is no need to keep the Sabbath, since it is no longer needed as the "seal" of those 144,000 "Remnant Church" members described in Revelations and thus SDA's self-described identity as the "Remnant Church," which it is demonstrably NOT.

But still......

Without 1844, without the Investigative Judgment, without the Remnant Church theory, without the Sabbath seal, without the Great Controversy theory, without Ellen White.....there is no reason for the Church to exist.

But still......

There is the tithe issue. If the Church has no reason to exist, where did all that money go? Do Adventists get the money back? Am I headed for the Lake of Fire for asking these questions?

Also, without the Church existing, I would plumb run out of reasons to pepper my posts with "startling!" and "fascinating!"

Quite a pickle, Elder finds himself in.
 
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Elder 111

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I changed the emphasis in what you posted, in hopes you would see your own monumental blunders - blunders so incredible I wonder if you're bordering on functionally illiterate.

First: "Look carefully and see that God did something on the seventh day Sabbath."
There is no Sabbath recorded anywhere in the Genesis account. It is as if you can't read a Bible, nor even Cribstyl's post that mentions this.

Second: "It is no ordinary day."
The verb "is" denotes the present tense, and is an obvious error when applied to an event in the distant past, namely the seventh day that was well over two million days ago. What is wrong with you? Didn't they teach basic grammar to you in the former British colony of Barbados, a sovereign state that brags about how literate their population is in comparison to their neighbors?

Adam was a first-person witness when He accounted for God's rest on the seventh day. This is probably the primary reason we know about it, aside from divine inspiration given to the Biblical authors later on (and I include Moses in this). And yet you willfully chose to flush all memory of the seventh day down the porcelain pot, ignore God's rest, and mumble incoherent nonsense about the Sabbath that became a periodic shadow of a singular event and didn't exist until ordained thousands of years later. You are nearly illiterate and completely incompetent, Elder111. You sure don't seem able to read what's presented before you and provide a response to it.

The rest of your post continues to build on a premise that is abject error, and I will quote only one short portion of it for comment.

You have not shown that Adam did anything on the seventh day, other than witness God's rest. Didn't it ever occur to you that Adam wasn't God? What is wrong with you? There was no obedience called on from Adam in relation to the seventh day. The implied (and missing) verb in your incomplete sentence "Obedience to God" is in the present tense and is absurd, especially in light of deflection to an unrelated subject (forbidden fruit). Your claim "The Sabbath was blessed from Adam's first full day of life" is so far removed from the Biblical account showing there was no Sabbath during Adam's lifetime that you show all of us where your devotion rests:

Cribstyl is correct in showing Elder111's reliance on a false prophet, both of whom contradict the Biblical record recorded in the Law. And as it is Written,
To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
How many things have I quoted from E G White? I don't need to and never did. Bible and Bible alone. AS a matter of fact, not only have you quoted her and I did not, I also believe that you have read her writings more than me. I was not led to the Sabbath by the SDA church. Wanted you and all others to know that. Clearly the "Christianity" that you all support was rejected even before there was an SDA church. Mine you it will return to it's former "glory" and of course that is your agenda.
 
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VictorC

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How many things have I quoted from E G White? I don't need to and never did. Bible and Bible alone. AS a matter of fact, not only have you quoted her and I did not, I also believe that you have read her writings more than me. I was not led to the Sabbath by the SDA church. Wanted you and all others to know that. Clearly the "Christianity" that you all support was rejected event before there was and SDA church. Mine you it will return to it's former "glory" and of course that is your agenda.
Now look at your post, quoted above. Nowhere did you present any defense for your departure from the Bible and Bible alone documented in my post.
Nowhere.
What anyone can see is that your views aren't from the Bible, and in addition you're very vocal in expressing your pure loathing for Christianity. We can all safely conclude from your post that you aren't a Christian.
No wonder you despise God's Law as you do.
 
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I've been wanting to dig into this subject for some time, and came across the name Francis Nigel Lee. I will mention beforehand that he comes from a Reformed Presbyterian background.

I was initially drawn to him, as I read that he spent quite some time in QLD, where I returned from recently.

He wrote a very long piece on the subject, covering creation onwards:-
The Covenantal Sabbath - Table of Contents - Dr. Francis Nigel Lee

A couple of points raised above by persons, are expanded on in his writing.

Again, I'll mention it is very long, but if you stick with it, I think it is a very interesting read. It has perhaps convinced me that the Sabbath was made for man.
 
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I've been wanting to dig into this subject for some time, and came across the name Francis Nigel Lee. I will mention beforehand that he comes from a Reformed Presbyterian background.

I was initially drawn to him, as I read that he spent quite some time in QLD, where I returned from recently.

He wrote a very long piece on the subject, covering creation onwards:-
The Covenantal Sabbath - Table of Contents - Dr. Francis Nigel Lee

A couple of points raised above by persons, are expanded on in his writing.

Again, I'll mention it is very long, but if you stick with it, I think it is a very interesting read. It has perhaps convinced me that the Sabbath was made for man.
Thanks but no thanks. I'll stick to the Bible, thank you. I believe what it says and there isn't room for or evidence that the Sabbath was made for mankind.
 
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LarryP2

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I've been wanting to dig into this subject for some time, and came across the name Francis Nigel Lee. I will mention beforehand that he comes from a Reformed Presbyterian background.

I was initially drawn to him, as I read that he spent quite some time in QLD, where I returned from recently.

He wrote a very long piece on the subject, covering creation onwards:-
The Covenantal Sabbath - Table of Contents - Dr. Francis Nigel Lee

A couple of points raised above by persons, are expanded on in his writing.

Again, I'll mention it is very long, but if you stick with it, I think it is a very interesting read. It has perhaps convinced me that the Sabbath was made for man.

Sorry about the short post, but I am in a hotel lobby in Vancouver, British Columbia. I read the article mentioned on my smartphone and have the following preliminary compliments:

The article completely supports Eastern Orthodoxy's adamant contention that the Jewish Sabbath was rejected immediately after the Resurrection. EO's contention that Sunday worship began on the "dawn of the Resurrection morning" is absolutely supported by the article. It demolishes Seventh Day Adventism's theory of a later "Sabbath Apostasy."

The article's contention that Sabbath was a creation ordinance does not cite the Adamic or the Noahide Covenants that are explicitly set forth in Genesis, reaffirmed in the Mishnah Torah, reaffirmed by Moses and reaffirmed repeatedly in the Babylonian Talmud. There is a complete ABSENCE of ANY Gentile - before, during or after Christ - keeping the Jewish Sabbath.

The article completely ignores the work of Hebrew linguists as I mentioned in my prior post that completely reject a reading of Genesis that in any way could infer the Sabbath was a creation ordinance. It is specifically worded to preclude that inference.
 
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How many things have I quoted from E G White? I don't need to and never did. Bible and Bible alone. AS a matter of fact, not only have you quoted her and I did not, I also believe that you have read her writings more than me. I was not led to the Sabbath by the SDA church. Wanted you and all others to know that. Clearly the "Christianity" that you all support was rejected even before there was an SDA church. Mine you it will return to it's former "glory" and of course that is your agenda.
If you're a SDA (and you are) then you believe that Ellen G White is the spirit of prophecy. What she said she saw in dreams, contradicts what the word of God says.
 
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LarryP2

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If you're a SDA (and you are) then you believe that Ellen G White is the spirit of prophecy. What she said she saw in dreams, contradicts what the word of God says.

That's the part about growing up SDA, and what I constantly notice about SDA behavior on these sites: The lies that go on, denying what they believe, denying they know anything about EG White, denying that they are SDA. I remember when an evangelist would come through and they would rent an auditorium and all of the literature would carefully have any reference to EG White and SDA removed. It is troubling that it is either that embarrassing or they know their reputation is so horrible they have to disguise who they really are. I.E. "Lie about who they are."

If they are from God, why do they have to lie so much about everything? And here are some articles on the unfortunate outcome from growing up without a choice as SDA. Read the comments below the articles. The number of atheists that Seventh Day Adventism creates is truly mind-boggling:

Life Among the Sadventists: They’re Always Watching | Atheist Oasis – A Rational Refuge

Seventh-day Adventist Lies: Coming Soon To A Mailbox Near You | Atheist Oasis – A Rational Refuge
 
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That's the part about growing up SDA, and what I constantly notice about SDA behavior on these sites: The lies that go on, denying what they believe, denying they know anything about EG White, denying that they are SDA. I remember when an evangelist would come through and they would rent an auditorium and all of the literature would carefully have any reference to EG White and SDA removed. It is troubling that it is either that embarrassing or they know their reputation is so horrible they have to disguise who they really are. I.E. "Lie about who they are."

If they are from God, why do they have to lie so much about everything?
Good question.
 
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LarryP2

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It seems that anyone who doesnt agree on here, will be accused of being and SDA. People are allowed to have their own option and ACTUALLY NOT be a SDA.

The problem is, there are so many SDAs that come on here and deny that they are SDAs, deny that they know Ellen White and so on. The Church is founded on lies, so it is not too surprising that its members seek to recruit members to it by lying about who they are, what they believe and why they believe.

Not many ex-SDAs ever find real Christianity. Most of them go straight to atheism. I battled that for many years. Which is why I am truly-delighted by just plain unvarnished Christianity; the same thing in every important respect as it has been since the Resurrection. Every SDA doctrine somehow covers up the Real Deal of Christianity. Just a few examples:

- 1844 false prophecy led to false doctrine of Investigative Judgment which led to the false doctrine of the Remnant Church which led to the false Sabbath doctrine which led to false doctrine of soul sleep;

Nothing happened in 1844, there is no investigative judgment, Adventism is not the Remnant Church and Sabbath and soul sleep are both unbiblical to the core.

Outcome for all too many Adventists that realize all of this? Atheism. Check out the two links in my previous post.

1). The 1844 False Prophecy is wrongly-based on Daniel 8:14's Prophecy of "2300 Days until the Sanctuary cleansed." Which was fulfilled so utterly remarkably in an ACTUAL 2300 DAYS (not YEARS as Adventists weirdly teach) that many critics of the Bible were convinced that the Book of Daniel was written AFTER the Jewish Temple was "cleansed" after it was defiled by Antioch Epiphanes, 100s of years before Christ. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls disproved a later-written Book of Daniel as argued by many scoffers. The accuracy of this prophecy is just jaw-dropping stunning, and gives a MASSIVE and OVERWHELMING boost in the historicity and confidence of the Bible.

2). The Investigative Judgment is so grossly unbiblical that I need not state the particulars here. No reputable Adventist theologian believes it has even the suspicion of a biblical basis. But the Real Gospel, once you replace the IJ with it, is just so incredibly liberating and healing that I believe it can quickly heal the damage inflicted by Adventist lies. The IJ and the Gospel are absolutely incompatible and completely in conflict. The Gospel asserts that Christ's atonement was finished once and for all on the Cross and that our works have NOTHING to do with Salvation. The IJ is the opposite in every important respect.

3). The Sabbath: That the Resurrection REALLY happened is stunningly proven by the Jewish Apostles IMMEDIATELY jettisoning Sabbath Keeping! Any of the usual criticisms that the Resurrection never happened have to get by the stubborn facts of the strange, dramatic and sudden behavioral change of those Apostles. They would not have abandoned the Sabbath and adopted celebrating the Resurrection on Sunday, had not they been completely blown-away and rocked to their core by the Resurrection. It really did happen! And the Apostles' strange and unprecedented behavioral changes are strongly-buttressed by extra-biblical historical sources.

4). That Soul Sleep is a false doctrine provides immeasurable confidence in the Gospel that was provided once and forever by the sacrifice of Christ and is the antidote for the severe fear and paralyzing anxiety of growing up Adventist. Christianity's doctrine of the immortality of the Soul - as best demonstrated and proven by the facts of the Resurrection - is immensely comforting and the true antidote to Adventist paranoia, fears and lies. Just look at the First and Second Century Christians: they eagerly went to their deaths rather than recant Christ, because they knew this life means nothing and they would be with Jesus instantly.

5). That Adventism is not the "Remnant Church" is extraordinarily-comforting: Ex-Adventists can take great comfort that traditional, basic Christianity is in all important respects exactly as it was taught by the original Apostles, with no hard-to-digest weird conspiracy theories, outright lies and other dishonest historical nonsense that leads directly to all-too-many ex-Adventists flailing in the morass of Atheism.
 
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SAAN

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The problem is, there are so many SDAs that come on here and deny that they are SDAs, deny that they know Ellen White and so on. The Church is founded on lies, so it is not too surprising that its members seek to recruit members to it by lying about who they are, what they believe and why they believe.

I have seen how bad it is with them as my friend who used to be one told me how her parents said SDA's Dont: dance, wear jewelry, drink, are vegans and thinks Sunday is the Mark of the Beast.

I didnt know it was that bad to the point to telling lies to recruit people.
 
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LarryP2

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I have seen how bad it is with them as my friend who used to be one told me how her parents said SDA's Dont: dance, wear jewelry, drink, are vegans and thinks Sunday is the Mark of the Beast.

I didnt know it was that bad to the point to telling lies to recruit people.

And you know what SAAN? I have no basic problem with their "Don't dance, wear jewelry, drink alcohol, eat meat" as you described it, were it not for the outright lies that they are based on!

I don't drink alcohol, but I also do not believe the Bible takes any position on it, either in favor or against. Normal social drinking is simply not an issue for Christians. But Adventists have to go and tell that outright lie that Jesus turned water into pure grape juice at the wedding! And then alcohol is turned into a test of fellowship and a condition of Salvation. WRONG!

I don't dance (because I personally can't stand it), but there is plenty of evidence in both the Old and New Testament of people dancing. Again, it is not an issue for Christians, for or against. I don't wear Jewelry either, but again it is simply not an issue for Christians, either for or against. At minimum, neither dancing or jewelry are issues of Salvation and at minimum, both are at least permissible for any Christian. But then Adventists have to go and lie and pervert Scripture to manufacture prohibitions against them and then compound those lies by inferring that not doing either is necessary for Salvation. WRONG!

The mandatory vegetarian thing is outright unbiblical to the core. It is clear from both the Old and New Testament that Christians are at liberty to eat whatever they want. And I believe at least some of the Apostles ate pork previously offered to idols in order to evangelize Pagans, just like they went to the Synagogue to evangelize Jews on Saturday. Is Vegetarianism a good idea? Probably. Would eating less or no meat benefit most of us? Probably. Did historic Christianity have it correct when they advised Christians that fasting - staying away from meat and alcohol to improve one's spirituality - was beneficial? Absolutely. But when any of these practices are based on outright lies about their biblical foundation, then they are WRONG. And then to compound the lies and make them into literally an issue of Salvation is outright evil and insane and completely counter to the Gospel! (Historic Christianity taught that while fasting and avoiding meat and alcohol were spiritually beneficial, it NEVER made it into a test of faith or Salvation).

I can even swallow the Sabbath the way Seventh Day Baptists keep it and the position it holds in their doctrines. But then SDA's takes something that is at BEST just permissible for Christians, lie through their teeth about it, make it absolutely mandatory and then make it an issue for Salvation and then make it into the Seal as described in Revelation, and then make it into the sign that they are the Remnant Church......NONE of which are biblical! And if all of that were not enough, they flat out either deny or severely degrade the effect of the Resurrection by the way they characterize Sunday worship as "The Mark of the Beast." When in reality, the validity of Sunday worship is based completely on celebrating the Resurrection. If it does not help you to focus on the Resurrection, then by all means worship on Tuesday or Thursday or whenever you feel like it. It is not a big deal. I am as opposed to Sunday Sabbatarianism as I am Saturday Sabbatarianism. There is a POWERFUL argument AGAINST Sunday worship in that Christians should have "rest" in Christ everyday and not make a big deal about Sunday, either. In fact, I believe that is the most biblical of all positions. I just happen to like Sunday because it reinforces the effect of the Resurrection.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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I have seen how bad it is with them as my friend who used to be one told me how her parents said SDA's Dont: dance, wear jewelry, drink, are vegans and thinks Sunday is the Mark of the Beast.

I didnt know it was that bad to the point to telling lies to recruit people.

SAAN, don't believe their lies and nonsense. I know a lot of SDA's here and none of them I know have ever pretended or denied being one. There are people here who believe in the Sabbath but are not SDA's. People automatically assume once you believe in Sabbath Keeping that you are SDA and therefore, if you say you are not them you are denying it. I have some friends on here who are Messianic Jews who have been accused on being SDA's. Oh well.

And if you notice, Elder111 simply said that he did not quote for EG White but he was going on the bible alone. Somehow to these people that means he is denying everything about her. Regardless of where you stand, the point is that they are being very dishonest to try to support their weak arguments.

And what your friend's parents said about SDA's are misleading. For one, I am not a vegan and most of the SDA's I know are not. Sunday Worship only becomes the Mark of the Beast if the Beast enforces it. So that's a misleading statement. Don't dance - its relative to the kind of dancing. Everything else is largely correct.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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It can only make sense that when God first gave the Sabbath it was to men. That fact should not be confused with God's rest from creating all things. God's rest was not for man, it was clearly because God was finished and therefore ended all His work.

Actually let's be clear on something. God did not actually "work". God saying "Let there be light" is really not work. When God rested it simply means he ceased from his "work". So then the question is why did God choose to make the world in 6 days and rest on the 7th. He could have done it in one day and then not rest at all. The only reason God choose to do that is to create a cycle for us to follow.

Rotation of the earth gives the day, lunar action gives the month, revolution of the earth around the sun gives the year. There is no scientific explanation for the week. The weekly cycle is solely God's doing. He set the week in motion and thus set a pattern for us to follow.

The scriptures makes it clear that the people whom God gave the Sabbath, was to stay in their places and do no servile work. We find no dialog or commands for anyone to keep Sabbath in Genesis.

It's true that there was no command for Sabbath keeping in Genesis, but neither is there a command about taking another man's wife, or lying, or killing, or stealing. About 2000 years of earth history is covered in 6 chapters in Genesis. From creation the bible goes to the fall of man and then leads up to the flood. So then to say that because nothing is mentioned in the account in Genesis about God actually telling someone to keep the sabbath, that it was never done is not a strong argument to make because clearly there is a whole lot the bible left out. When did God tell Noah how to distinguish clean from unclean animals? Well its not mentioned but God must have told Noah how because later on he told him to take the clean animals by sevens and the unclean by twos.

There is nothing moral about the sabbath. (resting 1/7 days)
If God ever said that Sabbath is a sign to distinguish the COI from all other nations of the world, it could never have been a creation ordinance for all people.

I think we can agree on the fact that God blessed the Seventh day and made it holy. Why would God even do that? If someone thing holy then morality becomes a reality. If a church is holy, and I go in the church smoking weed and gambling then I am doing wrong. How is it different to if the sabbath is holy. It them means morality is a reality. Plus, it was placed in the 10 commandments which is the moral law. You want to tell God he put it in with the wrong set of commandments?

:preach::preach::preach:Only a false prophet would contradict God, and say that Sabbath was given for all men at creation.
God clearly said that sabbath was a sign between Himself and the Children of Israel.
If God had made sabbath for all men, why would He change His mind??? And if He did change His mind, why should all men keep what God said was between Himself and one nation?

Taking Jesus out of context is also a familiar deception...
[/QUOTE]

You are not making any sense. So you are saying that the Sabbath was not for all men at creation, and it was only for the Jews. The first Jew was Abraham so from creation until Abraham (well over 2,000 years) the Sabbath was for nobody. So then why did God make the Sabbath during creation. He could have just waited until Abraham came along and told him to keep the seventh day.
 
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