Is This True? - Limited Atonement

[catholichomeschooler]

Post 250:

That's not five point Calvinism. But God did decide who would go to hell based on their actions. It's called justice. He also decided who'd go to heaven despite their actions. It's called mercy.

What actions could those bound for Hell according to your theology have taken to go to heaven?

 

[Hammster]

What actions could those bound for Hell according to your theology have taken to go to heaven?

They could have never sinned in the first place. Other than that, nothing in and of themselves. Once born again, however, they will respond with faith which leads to justification.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

They could have never sinned in the first place. Other than that, nothing in and of themselves. Once born again, however, they will respond with faith which leads to justification.

Does God want all men to be saved?

 

[Hammster]

Does God want all men to be saved?

Any chance you'll start interacting with what I'm saying?

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Any chance you'll start interacting with what I'm saying?

All men sin. So you are saying that there is nothing that these men could do to be saved if they are not predestined to heaven, right?

I am contrasting that with Christian teaching which says that God wants all men to be saved and that he wants the wicked to repent.

 

[Hammster]

All men sin. So you are saying that there is nothing that these men could do to be saved if they are not predestined to heaven, right?

I am contrasting that with Christian teaching which says that God wants all men to be saved and that he wants the wicked to repent.

If they want to be saved, they'll be saved. God would never keep someone out who repented and believed the gospel.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

If they want to be saved, they'll be saved. God would never keep someone out who repented and believed the gospel.

So now you are saying it is men's desires that determines their salvation?

That is not consistent with Calvinism.

 

[Hammster]

So now you are saying it is men's desires that determines their salvation?

That is not consistent with Calvinism.

I didn't say that at all.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

I didn't say that at all.

What do you mean by this:

If they want to be saved, they'll be saved.

 

[Hammster]

What do you mean by this:

I meant exactly what I said. There's no hidden message.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

I meant exactly what I said. There's no hidden message.

????

Originally Posted by catholichomeschooler View Post
So now you are saying it is men's desires that determines their salvation?

That is not consistent with Calvinism.

I didn't say that at all.

__________________

If they want to be saved, they'll be saved.

 

[Hammster]

????

Originally Posted by catholichomeschooler View Post
So now you are saying it is men's desires that determines their salvation?

That is not consistent with Calvinism.



__________________

Is there a question, or a point?

 

[stenerson]

????

Originally Posted by catholichomeschooler View Post
So now you are saying it is men's desires that determines their salvation?

That is not consistent with Calvinism.

Calvinist believe that all those that are willing, that seek, that knock, that ask, that believe etc will be accepted. We don't believe that God/Christ rejects anyone that repents and seeks Him.

 

[Hammster]

Calvinist believe that all those that are willing, that seek, that knock, that ask, that believe etc will be accepted. We don't believe that God/Christ rejects anyone that repents and seeks Him.

Yep.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Once again:
Neither definition fits.

Uh, which part of "why" wasn't clear?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Because Hell is the default position, so to speak. Unless God shows mercy, that's where everyone would end up.

But His arbitrary choice is fair?

How does that work?

Oh, I'm beginning to see it. He's fair because RT says so. Got it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do I really have to explain this again?

How about the first time?

 

[FreeGrace2]

They could have never sinned in the first place. Other than that, nothing in and of themselves. Once born again, however, they will respond with faith which leads to justification.

I keep hoping someone who believes this will provide a verse that actually SYS this. But I won't hold my breath.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Originally Posted by catholichomeschooler View Post
So now you are saying it is men's desires that determines their salvation?

That is not consistent with Calvinism.

I didn't say that at all.

Your answer pretty much did.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Calvinist believe that all those that are willing, that seek, that knock, that ask, that believe etc will be accepted. We don't believe that God/Christ rejects anyone that repents and seeks Him.

But in the very tiny small print RT also claims that unless God changes one, no one will ever want to do any of those things.

So it's still quite a closed system. No one wants God, per RT, so God arbitrarily changes some of them, which by definition is against their desire and will, so that they will WANT to seek Him.

Yet RT denies that God forces anyone.

Uh, changing someone against their will IS forcing them. By definition.