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Zionism Question

Moriah Ruth 777

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What exactly is Zionism?

In the bible is Zion referred to as Israel?

And what about some Jewish groups that do not believe in Zionism? Where do they stand?

Also what about some Jewish groups that do not believe that Israel is the true nation of God?

I ask these questions because there is a very strict group here in my city called Lev Tahore. They do not believe in Israel being the nation of God. They burn the Israeli flag. They do not believe in Zionism. They believe that they are the true spiritual Israel.

Moriah Ruth
 

CherubRam

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What exactly is Zionism?

In the bible is Zion referred to as Israel?

And what about some Jewish groups that do not believe in Zionism? Where do they stand?

Also what about some Jewish groups that do not believe that Israel is the true nation of God?

I ask these questions because there is a very strict group here in my city called Lev Tahore. They do not believe in Israel being the nation of God. They burn the Israeli flag. They do not believe in Zionism. They believe that they are the true spiritual Israel.

Moriah Ruth

The Jews in control of Israel are Masons. The other complaining Jewish sects are not members of any secret society.
 
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CherubRam

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CherubRam

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CherubRam,

I did not start this thread for anyone to bash other Jewish groups. Do you mind keeping it simple? But I guess that is too much to ask from you.

Moriah Ruth

I was just stating the facts, nothing more. There are many people in the world with differing beliefs. You asked a question and I answered.
 
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CherubRam

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CherubRam,

My question was only directed to knowing what Zionism is and the other questions relating to it.

I did NOT ask for opinion on other Jewish groups or for people to bash other Jewish groups.

Moriah Ruth

From a biblical point of view, Zion is the true people of God. From a worldly point of view, The term “Zionism” was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum. Its general definition means the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to Israel. In Judaism there are different sects and cult with varying beliefs.
 
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Avodat

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Read Rev'd Stephen Sizer's book - Christian Zionism - Road-map to Armageddon, IVP, London. (2004).

You'll still puke at what is written, but at least it is a sort of academic attempt at the subject :) and it gives an insight in to his twisted thinking. The good part of the book is the first third, or so, where he does a good job at outlining the historical background to Christian Zionism.

Sizer is, arguably, the UK's worst anti-semite in the clerical realm. Moves have been made to have him dismissed as an Anglican Minister by Christians, Messianics and Jews.

I wrote a thesis against his prime argument in this book - I'm grateful to him for providing the arguments that gained me a Pass with Merit in opposing them. :clap:
 
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Avodat

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Avodat,

Does the book explain Jewish Zionism? I did see the Christian Zionism along my trails as I was searching out information on Elizabeth Dilling.

Moriah Ruth

The word 'Zionism' was coined in 1892 - but the concept has existed for millennia and can be traced back through scripture. It therefore has a theological impact on all who take The Book seriously, whether Jew or Christian and cannot be ignored.

Christian Zionism simply means Christian support for Zionism (the desire of the people of Israel for a land of their own). Theodore Hertzl first used the term 'Christian Zionist', it seems, to relate to Henri Dunant - one of a small group of gentiles invited to the First World Zionist Congress. The term is now used not just for a Christian who supports a Land for Israel, but for any Christian that supports the State of Israel for any reason.

Given what you are looking for I think you might find his book interesting. If you just want Zionism, as such, read The Book - it is writ large on every page from before Moses onwards to the end of 2 Chronicles (the end of the Tanach). Thankfully, since the 19th century, Jews have been blessed with active Christian support for them to have their own Land - specifically the G_d-given land that is Israel.

If you want to know about the subject it is worth getting the book, though it pains me that such a jerk should earn money from trashing Israel! Balance can be obtained by reading 'Future Israel' by Barry Horner. Horner refers to Sizer's book and disproves much of Sizer's work, but Sizer does help us to know our enemy as he is truly a sheep in wolves clothing, who is teaching the Church his twisted logic, with the tacit approval of a number of Bishops in the UK Anglican Church.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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I hope your not going to say there is no such thing.

Here is just one little morsel: MasonicWorld.com


This is incredibly silly, is what it is Cherub.

Really.


People will always pervert the ways and things of God, a group of people think they know the secrets to the temple because they were involved in the construction.


They based their whole belief system on bits and pieces of the comings and goings of the temple, OF COURSE its going to look like Judaism and have many common themes, but perverted from a gentile perspective.


Do you know a lot of Masons?


I do, and I come from a long line of Masons, every man in my family is one.



My uncle just passed away, and he had the real big Masonic funeral which very interesting.


If there was ever a Jewish Mason, it was probably, NO DOUBT, a Jew who believed in Christ and lived like a gentile.

To try and bash Jews with Masons is just silly, it's outrageously silly.


I could find you a Jew hating Jew also, but he doesn't stand as an original icon or authority for anything.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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Something I ran across by Eddie Chumney a few years ago.



THE DUTY OF A WATCHMAN



The God of Israel (YHVH) has set watchmen on the walls of Jerusalem for Zion's sake (Is 62:1, 6). The watchmen will cry, 'Let Us Go Up To Zion' (Jer 31:6).



The Hebrew word for 'watchman' is NATZAR. It consists of the three Hebrew letters: Nun, Tzadde, Resh. There is another Hebrew word that contains the same three Hebrew letters for 'watchman' which is 'Notzri" or "Notzrim" (plural). Notzri is the Hebrew word for 'Christian'. Notzri (Christian) contains the same Hebrew letters as 'watchman' (Notzar) which is: Nun, Tzadde, Resh.



In his book, "Ephraim: The Gentile Children of Israel" by Yair Davidi who is an Orthodox Jew who lives in Jerusalem, he explains that words in the Hebrew language have a basic three letter root and that each word that contains the same basic Hebrew root letters can have a similar internal meaning.



Therefore, the Bible implies that the 'watchmen' in the end of days who declares, 'Let Us Go Up To Zion' (Jer 31:6) will be regarded as being 'Christians' (believers in Yeshua as the Messiah).



A WATCHMAN BLOWS A SHOFAR (sounds a warning) TO WARN OF JUDGMENT COMING UPON A LAND



In Ezekiel 33:1-7, we are told that a duty of a watchman is to 'blow the shofar' (declare a prophetic warning) when he sees a 'sword' coming upon the land. If he blows the shofar and the people take warning then the people are the better for it. If the people don't take warning then the blood of judgment is upon the people and not the watchman.



In the end of days, a trumpet is to be 'blown in Zion' (Joel 2:1). Interestingly, I have had this Scripture at the top of the HHMI (hebroots.com) or (hebroots.org) website since 1996.



The reason why the trumpet is to be 'blown in Zion' (Joel 2:1) is that the 'DAY OF THE LORD' (YHVH) is at hand (Joel 2:1). The reason why a trumpet needs to be 'blown in Zion' is that Zion is SPIRITUALLY ASLEEP and doesn't recognize that the 'DAY OF THE LORD' (YHVH) is at hand.





WHY IS ZION SPIRITUALLY ASLEEP IN JUDAISM ?



Zion is spiritually asleep in traditional Judaism for several reasons.



#1) They spend more time studying the Talmud than the prophets of Israel



#2) They have a theology that 'bad things' written by the prophets don't have to come to pass. In other words, NOT ALL the words of the prophets MUST come to pass. The BAD THINGS (judgment) is OPTIONAL. As a result, traditional Judaism doesn't focus on the prophetic 'bad things'. Rather, they focus on studying more Talmud and following Rabbinic tradition.





WHY IS ZION SPIRITUALLY ASLEEP IN CHRISTIANITY ?



Zion is spiritually asleep in traditional Christianity for several reasons.



#1) Because of dispensational theology (age of law / age of grace) wherein the OT is written about the Jews and the NT is written about the Christians, dispensationalists believe that Zion is a term that refers to THEM (the Jews) and THEIR LAND (the land of Israel) and the covenant that YHVH through Abraham (Genesis 12, 15) made with THEM. Dispensationalists believe that the prophecies about Zion pertain to THEM (the Jews) while the Christians get to be blessed with a pre- tribulation rapture for believing in Yeshua as the Messiah. Those who espouse this doctrine are commonly called: Evangelical Christians or Christian Zionists. While Christian Zionists might protest the potential creation of a PLO state and dividing the city of Jerusalem, it is only for "love" purposes toward the Jewish people and the land of Israel.



While Christian Zionists want to "love" THEM on behalf of the covenant made with Abraham (Genesis 12, 15), the irony is that we are told in Galatians 3:29 that those who accept Yeshua as the Messiah are HEIRS of what was promised to Abraham (the land). As a result, Christian Zionists are ASLEEP not realizing that the covenant made with "THEM" is in reality made with THEM AND US. Therefore, Christian Zionists don't realize that they ARE ZION along with THEM (the Jews). So, there is a need to 'blow the shofar' to Christian Zionists.



#2) Because of dispensational theology (age of law / age of grace) and the prevalent view of a pre-tribulation rapture, most Christians believe that the tribulation events don't pertain to them. While believing in a 7 year tribulation based upon Daniel 9:24-27, they don't believe that the CURRENT Israel / PLO peace process to divide the land of Israel (Joel 3:2) and the city of Jerusalem (Zech 14:2) is the 'covenant of death' (Is 28:15) which the "anti-Christ" signs with the nation of Israel.



Because of the blindness of dispensational theology and the belief in the pre-tribulation rapture, most Christians don't consider that the CURRENT PRESIDENT of the USA (George Bush) is fulfilling the prophecies wherein a leader in the world will encourage and entice the nation of Israel to eventually sign a 'covenant of death'. Instead, many Christians still view President Bush as a 'Christian' president more than an individual who is fulfilling the prophecies about enticing Israel to make a 'covenant with death'.
 
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Moriah Ruth 777

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Hi Hannibal,

I did not start this thread to discuss about Masons. I asked the question as to what Zionism was. However I do thank you for your last post with regards to Zion being asleep in Christianity, Judaism, etc. Blessings to you.

Moriah Ruth
 
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visionary

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Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu reportedly revealed at a Likud conference on Wednesday some remarkable facets of the Basic Law he submitted last Thursday, which would enshrine Israel's status as the nation-state of the Jewish people.

Netanyahu told the head of Likud's hareidi division Yaakov Vider at the conference that he intends to make the Hebrew calendar, which is based on Jewish law, the official calendar of Israel, reports Kikar Hashabat.

The new law also would establish the Talmud, the core work of Jewish law, as an official basis for Israeli state law.

"I'm going to personally be involved in the law defining the state of Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people," Netanyahu reportedly told Vider. "It's a very important law that will influence how Israel will look in the future." Netanyahu Promises Talmud Will Be Israeli Law - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News

This might be an example of just how far Zionism will go in Israel.
 
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