What do Pagans believe?

[CherubRam]

What do Pagans believe Hell is like? Do all Pagans believe in a Hell? What do Pagans believe about life after death?

 

[CherubRam]

These questions are also for those involved in oriental religions.

 

[awitch]

I can only answer on my own behalf for this one.

I do not believe in hell. I think it's pretty likely that there is no afterlife and if there was, any description would be wishful thinking. Wherever it is we go, even if it is just into the void, I believe that's where everyone goes.

 

[gord44]

there is various beliefs. Most witches and druids I know believe in reincarnation. More northern pagan traditions like Heathenry or Ásatrú see 'Hel' as a place where most people go and it's not unpleasant unless you are a murderer or oathbreaker.

 

[dlamberth]

These questions are also for those involved in oriental religions.

There is no Hell. And I have no idea about what happens upon death. I'll find out when I die. That whole "what happens after death question" has absolutely no bearing what so ever on my Love of God or for why I follow the spiritual path that I'm on or anything at all.

.

 

[elephunky]

When I was a pagan I followed a fairly ecclectic path and did not believe in hell. I also believed in reincarnation.

 

[Zoness]

What do Pagans believe Hell is like? Do all Pagans believe in a Hell? What do Pagans believe about life after death?

You're going to get as many answers as you do pagans; I identified with Wicca and Hermetic Mysticism. I don't believe in a fire-and-brimstone hell. Throughout my transformation I believed that hell was a lower state of being and consciousness than we are in now which if set too low, one would cease to exist. The alternative was that the worst humanity has to offer simply never made it to the summerlands, and that was it. No eternal torture.

 

[smaneck]

These questions are also for those involved in oriental religions.

Not sure what you consider an 'oriental religion' but Baha'is consider heaven to be nearness to God and hell connotes remoteness.

 

[football5680]

There is no Orthodox Paganism which the majority belong to so the answers would depend on who you ask.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Personally, I believe that the very idea of a punitive afterlife smacks of wishful thinking on the part of those who would like to see their enemies suffer, and feel that any harm must be requited in kind.

Some people delight in the idea that wrongdoers who "have gotten away" will be caught after all, and feel that any other state of events would qualify as a grave injustice.


I do not believe that my identity construct will still be around after my physical demise; neither will this specific vantage point of individual consciousness.

That said, I believe that our separation from everything else is mostly illusory, and that linear time masks an eternity that exists right here, right now. Nothing is ever lost in this universe.

 

[steve_bakr]

Personally, I believe that the very idea of a punitive afterlife smacks of wishful thinking on the part of those who would like to see their enemies suffer, and feel that any harm must be requited in kind.

Some people delight in the idea that wrongdoers who "have gotten away" will be caught after all, and feel that any other state of events would qualify as a grave injustice.

I do not believe that my identity construct will still be around after my physical demise; neither will this specific vantage point of individual consciousness.

That said, I believe that our separation from everything else is mostly illusory, and that linear time masks an eternity that exists right here, right now. Nothing is ever lost in this universe.

I believe that consciousness survives and that heavenly, infernal, and purgatorial levels of reality exist. But I think there is an Ultimate Reality beyond these levels.

The highest state is reunion with Ultimate Reality and this might even result in the annihalation of individuality.

 

[light upon light]

I believe that consciousness survives and that heavenly, infernal, and purgatorial levels of reality exist. But I think there is an Ultimate Reality beyond these levels.

The highest state is reunion with Ultimate Reality and this might even result in the annihalation of individuality.

You always impress Steve. I always find what you say insightful...

 

[steve_bakr]

You always impress Steve. I always find what you say insightful...

You are very kind.

 

[dcalling]

My original Buddhist believe is that there is no hell, if you do bad things your soul level lowers after you die and you will reincarnate into levels lower, even reincarnate to animals, and may disappear all together. And if you have a good heart, and try to level yourself up, you will be like Buddha, that are beyond the cycle of reincarnation. That idea is just fascinating.

The near death experiences exibhited by many people kind of indicate a spiritual world, more energy like. It is more inline with Christian believes.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

I believe that consciousness survives and that heavenly, infernal, and purgatorial levels of reality exist. But I think there is an Ultimate Reality beyond these levels.

The highest state is reunion with Ultimate Reality and this might even result in the annihalation of individuality.

I just changed two words Steve.

I believe that consciousness exists and that heavenly, infernal, and purgatorial levels of reality exist. But I think there is an Ultimate Reality beyond these levels.

The highest state is reunion with Ultimate Reality and this might even result in the disappearance of individuality.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

The "I that speaks" is a rickety and somewhat unstable construct even as we speak. I am with the Buddhists on this one: there is no "self" (anatta) to survive our physical demise, and in many cases, our individuality can be lost or completely transformed even while we're still alive.
When people lose all of their memories or completely change their personality due to some cerebral condition, I truly consider them completely different persons who just happen to inhabit a body previously held by another. They may come to resemble the previous identity construct, provided they are surrounded by people who still identify them with the former person, but they'll never be identical.


Heck, *I* am hardly the same as I was ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, and I have the benefit of an unbroken line of continuity between fifteen-year-old me and thirtysomething-me.

To insist that this fragmented construct survives death strikes me as positively preposterous. As far as I am concerned, we already ARE a part of Ultimate Reality, and our sense of separation primarily serves the purpose of reflection (quite literally).
In order to understand the universe and ourselves, we MUST stand apart (or at least believe that we do). We are the cosmos looking at itself in wonder.

 

[steve_bakr]

The "I that speaks" is a rickety and somewhat unstable construct even as we speak. I am with the Buddhists on this one: there is no "self" (anatta) to survive our physical demise, and in many cases, our individuality can be lost or completely transformed even while we're still alive.
When people lose all of their memories or completely change their personality due to some cerebral condition, I truly consider them completely different persons who just happen to inhabit a body previously held by another. They may come to resemble the previous identity construct, provided they are surrounded by people who still identify them with the former person, but they'll never be identical.

Heck, *I* am hardly the same as I was ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, and I have the benefit of an unbroken line of continuity between fifteen-year-old me and thirtysomething-me.

To insist that this fragmented construct survives death strikes me as positively preposterous. As far as I am concerned, we already ARE a part of Ultimate Reality, and our sense of separation primarily serves the purpose of reflection (quite literally).
In order to understand the universe and ourselves, we MUST stand apart (or at least believe that we do). We are the cosmos looking at itself in wonder.

I understand and respect that. My mother-in-law died of Alzheimers. Her personality went through some changes during that process. In late Alzheimers or advanced dementia, there is this kind of stare similar to an infant. The eyes will be drawn to the movement of an object or person just like an infant. But as a Christian, I don't believe that changes in personality change the identity of one's soul. That is to say, we are more than the sum of the elements and processes that we are composed of.

I am interested that you say we are the Cosmos looking at itself and that we already are part of Ultimate Reality. Some Sufi's describe our existence as that of a mirror in which God reflects His Names and Attributes. Your view is compatible with many religious systems of thought, except that God is not identical with, but transcends, the Cosmos.

Also, some say that the only Reality is God (or Ultimate Reality). Our path is to realize that "He is us but we are not Him." The qualifying statement is there to avoid pantheism, that is, God is not merely the sum total of all things but all things are a reflection of Him. God remains God.

But the Hindus might say that our essential identity is the Divine Spark within (the Atman), that this, Atman will reunite with God because it is God. So, the formula says, "I am Atman. Atman is Brahman (the Supreme Reality in its original essence)."

I think it was Meister Eckhardt who said something like, "The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me." The Upanishads say that God is "the seeing of the eyes and the hearing of the ears." More specifically, God is that by which we see, hear, think, etc. There is a hadith which says something similar.

So, your comment about the Cosmos is mystical and profound. To actually experience that you are the Cosmos looking at itself would be a mystical experience.

Vedanta, Sufi theosophy, and other systems say that there are subtle energies that form our identity which are not empirically detectable, and which survive physical death. They also speak of the Universe having levels or layers of Reality that are higher than what is materially manifested to us.

Islamic mystics say that God will conform to our beliefs about Him, that is to say, He will only manifest Himself according to our capability or preparedness to understand Him.

The Bhagavad-Gita says something very similar and says that a person's afterlife will conform to the manifestation of God which we worship and the religion we practice. Even the Buddhists describe various heavens and hells, etc.

As to the question of the Ultimate Destiny of the soul-consciousness, it may well be that the highest state, as I said, is reunion with Ultimate Reality and the annihalation of our individuality.

You said that we already ARE part of the Ultimate Reality and that is true. But presently we are manifested as individuals and are veiled from knowing Ultimate Reality in His or Her or Its true state.

That is why Sufis say, "Die before you die" if you want to know Ultimate Reality, that is, relinquish the ego and practice recollection or remembrance of God. Paul says, "It is not 'I' but Christ who lives in me. The Bhagavad-Gita describes several methods or paths to reach the goal. Indeed, I believe that any religion can be a path to union with the Divine.

 

[gord44]

Great post Steve. Your references to the Bhagavad Gita are spot on!

 

[light upon light]

When people lose all of their memories or completely change their personality due to some cerebral condition, I truly consider them completely different persons who just happen to inhabit a body previously held by another. They may come to resemble the previous identity construct, provided they are surrounded by people who still identify them with the former person, but they'll never be identical.


Heck, *I* am hardly the same as I was ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, and I have the benefit of an unbroken line of continuity between fifteen-year-old me and thirtysomething-me.

To insist that this fragmented construct survives death strikes me as positively preposterous. As far as I am concerned, we already ARE a part of Ultimate Reality, and our sense of separation primarily serves the purpose of reflection (quite literally).
In order to understand the universe and ourselves, we MUST stand apart (or at least believe that we do). We are the cosmos looking at itself in wonder.

In many religious traditions, including (of course!) Judaism and Christianity, one of the names of God is "I Am".

I do not think the "I" construct is illusionary or imaginary. It's simply misperceived to refer to an individual.

We don't really exist as separate individuals.

Regarding memories being destroyed - I think the evidence points quite strongly that the brain is a "knot within consciousness" that interacts with the body as an interface to the "manifested world" of time and space.

The brain helps us find and tune in to specific relevant memories (mostly for survival / social purposes). That does not mean the memories are "stored in" the brain, any more than songs are stored in your radio.

There is simply far too much evidence that mind is not identical to brain activity:

https://www.google.com/search?q=terminal+lucidity

https://www.google.com/#q=veridical+nde&safe=off

Science is a method, not a position: mind and body

http://www.amazon.com/Irreducible-Mind-Toward-Psychology-Century/dp/1442202068

And really good philosophical indications from Quantum Mechanics why materialism is incorrect:

http://www.amazon.com/The-World-According-Quantum-Mechanics/dp/9814293377

 

[light upon light]

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