Divorce between believers..

[BrokenGhost]

Regardless of the one piece of scripture in the NT regarding adultery, I'm just wondering how a believer rectifies breaking a covenant before and with God, regarding "til death do us part".

 

[Inkachu]

Regardless of the one piece of scripture in the NT regarding adultery, I'm just wondering how a believer rectifies breaking a covenant before and with God, regarding "til death do us part".

What do you mean "rectifies"?

 

[ValleyGal]

There are more parts of the covenant than "till death." If traditional vows are used, they include "to have, to hold, to love, honour, cherish, be faithful," etc. If one of these is broken, the covenant is broken. It's important to know the promise you make, then live up to it. The fact is, most vows are broken long before the couple dies.

 

[BrokenGhost]

There are more parts of the covenant than "till death." If traditional vows are used, they include "to have, to hold, to love, honour, cherish, be faithful," etc. If one of these is broken, the covenant is broken. It's important to know the promise you make, then live up to it. The fact is, most vows are broken long before the couple dies.

True, but those can be repented of and repaired. Terminating the covenant permanently is a completely different, permanent, circumstance.

 

[ValleyGal]

Terminating the covenant permanently can also be repented of and the relationship can be reconciled - even if the couple does not get back together. So how is it different? Sometimes termination is the best option - otherwise, God would not have made concessions for divorce.

 

[Inkachu]

What do you mean "rectifies"?

...?

 

[BrokenGhost]

Terminating the covenant permanently can also be repented of and the relationship can be reconciled - even if the couple does not get back together. So how is it different? Sometimes termination is the best option - otherwise, God would not have made concessions for divorce.

The only thing I can find in scripture regarding this is in Matthew where it talks about infidelity. But even there, it's not said divorce is ok, just that someone divorced for this reason does not become an adulterer. But 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 specifically says not to divorce.

I read an inspiring write up on this today, and thought it would be nice to see what others have to say on the matter.

 

[BrokenGhost]

...?

Rectify - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

 

[Inkachu]

Rectify - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I KNOW what the word means, I was asking what YOU meant by it, but...

OK, so you're asking how can someone "set right, correct, or purify" a divorce? They can't. You can't take something bad and make it good. That doesn't mean divorcees are condemned; God forgives and offers grace that is greater than all our sins.

 

[seeingeyes]

Regardless of the one piece of scripture in the NT regarding adultery, I'm just wondering how a believer rectifies breaking a covenant before and with God, regarding "til death do us part".

Usually each of them claims that the other one was not a "believer", and that the other showed that they wanted to leave by their actions, and so they slide through Paul's loophole.

I much prefer an honest approach, however...

 

[ValleyGal]

The only thing I can find in scripture regarding this is in Matthew where it talks about infidelity. But even there, it's not said divorce is ok, just that someone divorced for this reason does not become an adulterer. But 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 specifically says not to divorce.

I read an inspiring write up on this today, and thought it would be nice to see what others have to say on the matter.

The passage, if you read it in Greek, uses the term "apoluo" which means to send away without the benefit of divorce. It is the same term Jesus uses when he talks about "divorce" and is the equivalent of the term "shalach" used in Malachi where it says "God hates divorce."

When you look at scripture as a whole, and in context, you will find that the Bible makes concessions for divorce as well as remarriage. That does not make it something we should seek out...it means that God knows that we are going to mess up in a messed up world, so he has made provisions for it. It's a matter of grace.

 

[LinkH]

Regardless of the one piece of scripture in the NT regarding adultery, I'm just wondering how a believer rectifies breaking a covenant before and with God, regarding "til death do us part".

I think it is important to separate the concept of marriage with our culture on marriage.

History of the Christian Wedding
In the Old Testament, a man would pay a father a bride-price for his virgin daughter, and he would give her to him in marriage. It was the custom to have a feast. In Jewish culture, there would be a waiting period between bethrothal and marriage. Jewish culture also had marriage contracts, bridal consent, and various other practices. Some people interpret the Torah as commentary and laws written around these existing cultural practices. Another approach is to think that some of these practices evolved over time, including during the intertestamental period in Babylon.

Our 'Christian weddings' seemed to have evolved from a Roman custom of a couple to be wed standing before a pagan priest and saying certain words. The bride would say, "Where you are Gaias, I am Gaia." At some point, the man would carry the bride away while her family chased them, recreating the traditional story of how early Roman men in the early days of the city had stolen their brides away. A ring was also part of Roman marriage culture.

My guess is, the Roman Christians substituted the pagan priest for a church elder and changed the words and a few customs. That became the 'Christian wedding', and vows were exchanged. A few hundred years into Christianity, Pope Gregory, I think, made weddings the business of the church, or so I've read.

What makes a couple married

If you asked a Hebrew who'd heard Moses give the law or some early Hebrew who believed in Yahweh, he might say if the bride's father is alive, and the groom gives him a bride price, that makes it official. If she isn't virgin, he might say a father would have to give her away in marriage for her to be married.

If a woman's husband died and she had no children, his brother might have been able to marry her by saying she is his wife and sleeping with her.

The Judaism we are familiar with has certain wedding traditions. But early Judaism didn't have these men they call 'rabbis' like the religion we know of today.

What about vows?

The Bible doesn't say we get married by making vows. I suspect many of those patriarchs in the Bible were married without vows.

A lot of our wedding vows aren't 'vows' in the sense of oaths sworn in the name of the Lord. They are "Let your yea be yea, and your nay be nay' type agreements, without an oath.

I think the Roman Catholic ceremony actually makes the couple swear.

If a couple do swear an oath and don't keep it, then they break an oath. Even if there are grounds for divorce, the oath was optional. A man could swear to God that he would always give his wife a flower every morning. That would be a stupid and foolish oath. He would be an oath breaker if he didn't keep it.

If he swears that as part of his wedding vows and breaks it, his wife does not have any Biblical right to divorce her husband because he broke his wedding vows. The vows are a separate thing.


If a woman swears to God that she will never divorce her husband, and the next day he beats her to a bloody pulp, sniffs cocaine off her body, and has sex with another woman right in front of her, and she divorces him, she is still breaking her oath to God.

If a man swears to God on his wedding day that he will never divorce his bride, and it turns out she lied to him about being a virgin, and he catches her sleeping with his best man during the wedding party, then she takes out a gun, and shoots his mother, if he divorces her, he is breaking his oath.

Jesus said "Swear not at all...." If you swear and break your vow, you are breaking your vow, no matter what other people did. You don't have to make the vows. It's not even required in our culture these days, and many churches do not require an actual oath.

My main points.
1. A vow is not the basis of a marriage.
2. A spouse can break a wedding vow (especially a stupid, self-written vow) and you could still not have grounds for divorce.
3. If you believe you have Biblical grounds for divorce, that doesn't mean you aren't breaking a vow you made if you divorce.

 

[LinkH]

The passage, if you read it in Greek, uses the term "apoluo" which means to send away without the benefit of divorce.

Early Christians who read Greek do not believe that. I've only seen that opinion among people who don't read Greek. A careful examination of Matthew 19 in the KJV disproves this theory.

This verse disproves the theory,

Matthew 19
7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Matthew, or whoever translated Matthew from Hebrew, shows us that the woman who is 'sent away' has a divorce certificate in hand. That disproves the idea that "apoluo" means sending a woman away without a certificate. In this verse, the woman who gets sent away has a certificate.

There Pharisees debated over whether a man could only divorce his wife-- with a certificate-- for certain reasons like adultery (Shamai's belief) or whether a man could divorce his wife---with a certificate-- for 'every cause', like burning breakfast (Hillel) or because she had a mole or one breast bigger than the other.

The opinions on these issues from about this time period were preserved in the Mishna and Talmud. The Mishna and Talmud represent the scribes and Pharisees side of first century Judaism, what evolved into Orthodox Judaism.

It is the same term Jesus uses when he talks about "divorce" and is the equivalent of the term "shalach" used in Malachi where it says "God hates divorce."

And the only place I've seen the theory that 'shalach' precludes he use of a divorce certificate is on websites and discussion forums form people who do not know Hebrew. There is no reason to assume that Malachi is talking about divorces without a certificate. In the passage that introduces divorce, Deuteronomy 24, it is clear that 'shalach' can be used in cases where a man does give his wife a divorce certificate.

It's a matter of grace

God's grace is what enables us not to sin.

 

[HannahT]

Early Christians who read Greek do not believe that. I've only seen that opinion among people who don't read Greek. A careful examination of Matthew 19 in the KJV disproves this theory.

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

Definition
to set free
to let go, dismiss, (to detain no longer)
a petitioner to whom liberty to depart is given by a decisive answer
to bid depart, send away
to let go free, release
a captive i.e. to loose his bonds and bid him depart, to give him liberty to depart
to acquit one accused of a crime and set him at liberty
indulgently to grant a prisoner leave to depart
to release a debtor, i.e. not to press one's claim against him, to remit his debt
used of divorce, to dismiss from the house, to repudiate. The wife of a Greek or Roman may divorce her husband.
to send one's self away, to depart

King James Word Usage - Total: 69
release 17, put away 14, send away 13, let go 13, set at liberty 2, let depart 2, dismiss 2, miscellaneous 6

Greek lexicon based on Thayer's and Smith's Bible Dictionary plus others; this is keyed to the large Kittel and the "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament." These files are public domain.

 

[LinkH]

HannahT, thanks for sharing that. It doesn't go into detail on the use of the term in relation to divorce, but does mention it was used in reference to divorce in the Greek or Roman context.


And, of course, this verse disproves the theory that the word could not be used of women sent away with a certificate:


Matthew 19
7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

The Pharisees asked about the woman who is 'put away' WITH a certificate of divorce, according to Deuteronomy 24.

The word cannot mean 'sent away without a certificate' because we have a clear example of it's usage in a case where it is used of a woman being sent away with a certificate.

 

[Svt4Him]

Because God is more concerned with the people in the marriage than the marriage itself.

 

[ValleyGal]

Your Greek lexicon is far different from my Greek theological dictionary. It is about sending away - NOT about divorce, which requires the certificate. If the authors wanted to say "divorce" they would have used the Hebrew and Greek terms for divorce - which is sending away WITH a certificate of divorce. But they didn't. That says to me they did NOT intend to say "divorce."

 

[LinkH]

Your Greek lexicon is far different from my Greek theological dictionary. It is about sending away - NOT about divorce, which requires the certificate. If the authors wanted to say "divorce" they would have used the Hebrew and Greek terms for divorce - which is sending away WITH a certificate of divorce. But they didn't. That says to me they did NOT intend to say "divorce."

You are assuming an exact word-for-word correspondence between languages. That does not exist.

You are also ignoring that other languages can have different idioms, set collocations, etc. that do not correspond with English.

A woman put away with a certificate is still put away.

A man who puts/sends his wife away with a certificate still sends/puts her away

 

[BrokenGhost]

My main points.
1. A vow is not the basis of a marriage.

Correct, but they ARE the basis of the covenant between husband, wife and God.

Because God is more concerned with the people in the marriage than the marriage itself.

I would beg to differ on this. I think the marriage is just as important to God, as He tells us in His word that a marriage between husband and wife directly relates to the marriage between Christ and the church.

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

Ephesians 5:22-33

 

[CounselorForChrist]

In the end it doens't matter what the bible says because if someone wants out of a marriage they will find any way to escape it they can. Thanks to sin its what we do sometimes. Its why I say people are responsible for their own actions when they stand in front of God.