Hobby Lobby...what do you make of this?

[JoyJuice]

Here is the Hobby Lobby statement outlining their principles:

We're Christians, and we run our business on Christian principles. I've always said that the first two goals of our business are (1) to run our business in harmony with God's laws, and (2) to focus on people more than money. And that's what we've tried to do. [...] We believe that it is by God's grace that Hobby Lobby has endured, and he has blessed us and our employees. [...] But now, our government threatens to change all of that. A new government health care mandate says that our family business MUST provide what I believe are abortion-causing drugs as part of our health insurance. Being Christians, we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception, the morning-after pill or the week-after pill. We believe doing so might end a life after the moment of conception, something that is contrary to our most important beliefs. It goes against the Biblical principles on which we have run this company since day one.
​

What it is said point blank is this, "we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception".

However, the bulk of their products come from China. Those companies they buy their product from pay taxes in China where not only is abortion legal, but even though they changed their one child policy to two, that policy still places families into a situation of abortion paid for by their Government.

Thoughts?

 

[Bedford]

Thoughts?

The same though I have always had - I will never step foot in a Hobby Lobby and not buy anything from their website.

As far as them denying their employees birth control coverage, that is the employees problem. Some people will quit and Hobby Lobby will hire employees they desire.

 

[abysmul]

Here is the Hobby Lobby statement outlining their principles:

We're Christians, and we run our business on Christian principles. I've always said that the first two goals of our business are (1) to run our business in harmony with God's laws, and (2) to focus on people more than money. And that's what we've tried to do. [...] We believe that it is by God's grace that Hobby Lobby has endured, and he has blessed us and our employees. [...] But now, our government threatens to change all of that. A new government health care mandate says that our family business MUST provide what I believe are abortion-causing drugs as part of our health insurance. Being Christians, we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception, the morning-after pill or the week-after pill. We believe doing so might end a life after the moment of conception, something that is contrary to our most important beliefs. It goes against the Biblical principles on which we have run this company since day one.
​

What it is said point blank is this, "we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception".

However, the bulk of their products come from China. Those companies they buy their product from pay taxes in China where not only is abortion legal, but even though they changed their one child policy to two, that policy still places families into a situation of abortion paid for by their Government.

Thoughts?

We don't live in a black and white world, there are many shades in between and they are probably picking stances that best allows them to run a business, employ people, and maintain their beliefs as best they can?

Perhaps you could email them and ask them?

 

[JoyJuice]

We don't live in a black and white world, there are many shades in between and they are probably picking stances that best allows them to run a business, employ people, and maintain their beliefs as best they can?

Perhaps you could email them and ask them?

Funny, black and white is exactly their principle they take even if they have to blur the function of contraception.

That's funny thing. Having to provide insurance with contraceptives, kind of like their money going to pay for abortions in China, does not effect the running of their business.

But you're right, having to look the other way is running their business the best way they can.

 

[abysmul]

Funny, black and white is exactly their principle they take even if they have to blur the function of contraception.

That's funny thing. Having to provide insurance with contraceptives, kind of like their money going to pay for abortions in China, does not effect the running of their business.

But you're right, having to look the other way is running their business the best way they can.

If they took a black and white approach, they could not be in business. I can only guess that while they are in the world they are doing what they can to not be "of the world". (or however that saying goes)

Again, they'd have to answer for themselves if you are truly wanting an answer.

 

[NotreDame]

Here is the Hobby Lobby statement outlining their principles:

We're Christians, and we run our business on Christian principles. I've always said that the first two goals of our business are (1) to run our business in harmony with God's laws, and (2) to focus on people more than money. And that's what we've tried to do. [...] We believe that it is by God's grace that Hobby Lobby has endured, and he has blessed us and our employees. [...] But now, our government threatens to change all of that. A new government health care mandate says that our family business MUST provide what I believe are abortion-causing drugs as part of our health insurance. Being Christians, we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception, the morning-after pill or the week-after pill. We believe doing so might end a life after the moment of conception, something that is contrary to our most important beliefs. It goes against the Biblical principles on which we have run this company since day one.
​

What it is said point blank is this, "we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception".

However, the bulk of their products come from China. Those companies they buy their product from pay taxes in China where not only is abortion legal, but even though they changed their one child policy to two, that policy still places families into a situation of abortion paid for by their Government.

Thoughts?

Thoughts? You are comparing apples to oranges. Hence, the tacit claim of hypocrisy is rather non-existent.

 

[JoyJuice]

If they took a black and white approach, they could not be in business. I can only guess that while they are in the world they are doing what they can to not be "of the world". (or however that saying goes)

I maintain they do take a black and white approach in running their business as for example the business decision to buy cheaper products from a nation in which their money pays for abortions. Their decision to fight having to provide insurance for abortion does not effect the running of their business at all.

Again, they'd have to answer for themselves if you are truly wanting an answer.

This is a forum where matters are discussed, I am asking those who participate in this forum what they think.

 

[JoyJuice]

Thoughts? You are comparing apples to oranges. Hence, the tacit claim of hypocrisy is rather non-existent.

...please continue...

 

[NotreDame]

Funny, black and white is exactly their principle they take even if they have to blur the function of contraception.

That's funny thing. Having to provide insurance with contraceptives, kind of like their money going to pay for abortions in China, does not effect the running of their business.

But you're right, having to look the other way is running their business the best way they can.

"[T]heir money going to pay for abortions in China" is a factually incorrect statement. The money belongs to a Chinese business, not to Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby transferring its money to a Chinese company in exchange for some service, good, or product, renders the money the property of the Chinese company and the Chinese company the owner of the money, and at this point the money is no longer Hobby Lobby's.

There is no hypocrisy or contradiction here. Hobby Lobby is protesting the use of its own money to pay for 4 contraceptives, not any and all contraceptives, but 4 contraceptives. The money in your example belongs, not to Hobby Lobby, but to a Chinese company. You are comparing apples to oranges. Consequently, there is no hypocrisy or contradictory behavior here on the behalf of Hobby Lobby. Nice try.

 

[abysmul]

I maintain they do take a black and white approach in running their business as for example the business decision to buy cheaper products from a nation in which their money pays for abortions. Their decision to fight having to provide insurance for abortion does not effect the running of their business at all.

It's clearly not black and white then, if it were (based on your statement of facts) then they'd not do business with companies in China.

What's your point? Is it simply that you don't like the company and you think they are hypocrites?

 

[abysmul]

"[T]heir money going to pay for abortions in China" is a factually incorrect statement. The money belongs to a Chinese business, not to Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby transferring its money to a Chinese company in exchange for some service, good, or product, renders the money the property of the Chinese company and the Chinese company the owner of the money, and at this point the money is no longer Hobby Lobby's.

There is no hypocrisy or contradiction here. Hobby Lobby is protesting the use of its own money to pay for 4 contraceptives, not any and all contraceptives, but 4 contraceptives. The money in your example belongs, not to Hobby Lobby, but to a Chinese company. You are comparing apples to oranges. Consequently, there is no hypocrisy or contradictory behavior here on the behalf of Hobby Lobby. Nice try.

No they are hypocrites! They pay taxes to the US government, which uses some of that money to pay for abortions!

 

[EdwinWillers]

Here is the Hobby Lobby statement outlining their principles:

We're Christians, and we run our business on Christian principles. I've always said that the first two goals of our business are (1) to run our business in harmony with God's laws, and (2) to focus on people more than money. And that's what we've tried to do. [...] We believe that it is by God's grace that Hobby Lobby has endured, and he has blessed us and our employees. [...] But now, our government threatens to change all of that. A new government health care mandate says that our family business MUST provide what I believe are abortion-causing drugs as part of our health insurance. Being Christians, we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception, the morning-after pill or the week-after pill. We believe doing so might end a life after the moment of conception, something that is contrary to our most important beliefs. It goes against the Biblical principles on which we have run this company since day one.
​

What it is said point blank is this, "we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception".

However, the bulk of their products come from China. Those companies they buy their product from pay taxes in China where not only is abortion legal, but even though they changed their one child policy to two, that policy still places families into a situation of abortion paid for by their Government.

Thoughts?

I think you're really struggling to find hypocrisy where it doesn't really exist. In truth, you could make the same argument for virtually any business, or individual that has [whatever] core set of values.

Personally, I really appreciate their stance and support them wholeheartedly, believing they have a valid concern and are doing the right thing to address it. I commend them.

 

[JoyJuice]

No they are hypocrites! They pay taxes to the US government, which uses some of that money to pay for abortions!

What are you saying, that the US Gov funds abortions? I know the Hyde Admen was change to allow abortions in cases of rape and incest, but I didn't know they were essentially the same as China?

 

[JoyJuice]

I think you're really struggling to find hypocrisy where it doesn't really exist. In truth, you could make the same argument for virtually any business, or individual that has [whatever] core set of values.

Personally, I really appreciate their stance and support them wholeheartedly, believing they have a valid concern and are doing the right thing to address it. I commend them.

...please continue. I think the cases are not the same as in their relationship with China worse then the idea of picking which contraceptives they don't want their employees to have.

 

[EdwinWillers]

What are you saying, that the US Gov funds abortions? I know the Hyde Admen was change to allow abortions in cases of rape and incest, but I didn't know they were essentially the same as China?

Well, that IS what he's saying; the US Government DOES fund abortions. And no, he didn't say the US Government is the same as China.

 

[EdwinWillers]

...please continue. I think the cases are not the same as in their relationship with China worse then the idea of picking which contraceptives they don't want their employees to have.

Again, I think you're really struggling to find hypocrisy where it doesn't really exist. In truth, you could make the same argument for virtually any business, or individual that has [whatever] core set of values.

 

[JoyJuice]

"[T]heir money going to pay for abortions in China" is a factually incorrect statement. The money belongs to a Chinese business, not to Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby transferring its money to a Chinese company in exchange for some service, good, or product, renders the money the property of the Chinese company and the Chinese company the owner of the money, and at this point the money is no longer Hobby Lobby's.

There is no hypocrisy or contradiction here. Hobby Lobby is protesting the use of its own money to pay for 4 contraceptives, not any and all contraceptives, but 4 contraceptives. The money in your example belongs, not to Hobby Lobby, but to a Chinese company. You are comparing apples to oranges. Consequently, there is no hypocrisy or contradictory behavior here on the behalf of Hobby Lobby. Nice try.

Yes, 16 out of 20.

Yes, the money changes hands and provides a function outside the control of Hobby Lobby in both scenarios. They however are choosing take exception in one case. They know in the end their money is going to a Government where it is going to pay for abortion. So in a indirect way the are paying for outright abortion.

 

[NotreDame]

No they are hypocrites! They pay taxes to the US government, which uses some of that money to pay for abortions!

If we ignore the fact the taxes are the money and property of the U.S. government and not Hobby Lobby, then you'd have an excellent point.

 

[abysmul]

How dare they pay their employees! Their employees could take that money and pay cash for an abortion, and donate to Planned Parenthood! *gasp*

 

[JoyJuice]

Well, that IS what he's saying; the US Government DOES fund abortions. And no, he didn't say the US Government is the same as China.

I would be interested in how the Gov funds abortions. And yes, The US and China is not the same in abortion.