A Pondering of the Peculiar (4)

[GenemZ]

There are terribly failed prophesies in the Bible. Did you want to discuss any of them or not?

How can I discuss when you refuse to tell me what they are?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How can I discuss when you refuse to tell me what they are?

You have not even agreed to discuss them. I was not refusing to discuss them with you, you have been avoiding the subject.

But since you seem to willing let's first define what counts as a prophesy. A prophesy should tell you of something that is not expected. Is that fair?

In other words if I predicted that you will see a red car and you did that would hardly count as a prophesy. But if I predicted that you would see a red car with yellow stripes and pink polkas dots next time that you drove that could be a prophesy. Again, does that sound reasonable?

 

[GenemZ]

You have not even agreed to discuss them. I was not refusing to discuss them with you, you have been avoiding the subject.

What subject? You keep refusing to tell me what is to be discussed!

But since you seem to willing let's first define what counts as a prophesy. A prophesy should tell you of something that is not expected. Is that fair?

Not expected? Not sure what you mean by that. A prophesy usually tells of something that is to be, before it happens. It may be unexpected to the hearer.. It was sometimes something they did not want to face and wanted to deny could happen. It all depends.

In other words if I predicted that you will see a red car and you did that would hardly count as a prophesy. But if I predicted that you would see a red car with yellow stripes and pink polkas dots next time that you drove that could be a prophesy. Again, does that sound reasonable?

I see what you mean. Your definition of prophesy is not like predicting that a player on a football team will be hurt in a game. It would have to be about something unusual that was to happen, and not expected.

Under one condition. One at a time, only.

Not a list all at once, please.

Go ahead. Tell me the first failed prophesy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What subject? You keep refusing to tell me what is to be discussed!

Ninth commandment warning. You kept running away. Please don't lie. And it seems we are trying to discuss it now.

Not expected? Not sure what you mean by that. A prophesy usually tells of something that is to be, before it happens. It may be unexpected to the hearer.. It was sometimes something they did not want to face and wanted to deny could happen. It all depends.


I see what you mean. Your definition of prophesy is not like predicting that a player on a football team will be hurt in a game. It would have to be about something unusual that was to happen, and not expected.

Under one condition. One at a time, only.

Not a list all at once, please.

Go ahead. Tell me the first failed prophesy.

How about the most obvious failed prophesy.


Ezekiel 26 - A Prophecy Against Tyre - In the - Bible Gateway


"26 And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the first day of the month, that the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished, now she is laid waste:

3 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up.

4 And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.

5 It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God: and it shall become a spoil to the nations.

6 And her daughters which are in the field shall be slain by the sword; and they shall know that I am the Lord.

7 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

8 He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee.

9 And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers.

10 By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach.

11 With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground.

12 And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water.

13 And I will cause the noise of thy songs to cease; and the sound of thy harps shall be no more heard.

14 And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the Lord have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

15 Thus saith the Lord God to Tyrus; Shall not the isles shake at the sound of thy fall, when the wounded cry, when the slaughter is made in the midst of thee?

16 Then all the princes of the sea shall come down from their thrones, and lay away their robes, and put off their broidered garments: they shall clothe themselves with trembling; they shall sit upon the ground, and shall tremble at every moment, and be astonished at thee.

17 And they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and say to thee, How art thou destroyed, that wast inhabited of seafaring men, the renowned city, which wast strong in the sea, she and her inhabitants, which cause their terror to be on all that haunt it!

18 Now shall the isles tremble in the day of thy fall; yea, the isles that are in the sea shall be troubled at thy departure.

19 For thus saith the Lord God; When I shall make thee a desolate city, like the cities that are not inhabited; when I shall bring up the deep upon thee, and great waters shall cover thee;

20 When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;

21 I will make thee a terror, and thou shalt be no more: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou never be found again, saith the Lord God."

This prophesy is so easy to debunk that you can debunk it with a map. It was predicted that Tyre would be totally obliterated and never found again.

Here it is:

Tyre Map - Lebanon - Mapcarta

 

[PsychoSarah]

That's your job to count them. Numbers are an easy typo for tired transcribers to make. And, they are not essential to one's salvation.

Look how many typos we make here, but still van understand what the intention was. I am shure you will agree.

Perhaps, but if there are a bunch of errors involving numbers, why not more errors in the words themselves? The fact that there are numerical values that do contradict each other in the bible means the book isn't infallible. If those can be wrong, it stands to reason that there are more errors than just those numbers.

 

[HitchSlap]

Ninth commandment warning. You kept running away. Please don't lie. And it seems we are trying to discuss it now.





How about the most obvious failed prophesy.


Ezekiel 26 - A Prophecy Against Tyre - In the - Bible Gateway


"26 And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the first day of the month, that the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished, now she is laid waste:

3 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up.

4 And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.

5 It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God: and it shall become a spoil to the nations.

6 And her daughters which are in the field shall be slain by the sword; and they shall know that I am the Lord.

7 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

8 He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee.

9 And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers.

10 By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach.

11 With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground.

12 And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water.

13 And I will cause the noise of thy songs to cease; and the sound of thy harps shall be no more heard.

14 And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the Lord have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

15 Thus saith the Lord God to Tyrus; Shall not the isles shake at the sound of thy fall, when the wounded cry, when the slaughter is made in the midst of thee?

16 Then all the princes of the sea shall come down from their thrones, and lay away their robes, and put off their broidered garments: they shall clothe themselves with trembling; they shall sit upon the ground, and shall tremble at every moment, and be astonished at thee.

17 And they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and say to thee, How art thou destroyed, that wast inhabited of seafaring men, the renowned city, which wast strong in the sea, she and her inhabitants, which cause their terror to be on all that haunt it!

18 Now shall the isles tremble in the day of thy fall; yea, the isles that are in the sea shall be troubled at thy departure.

19 For thus saith the Lord God; When I shall make thee a desolate city, like the cities that are not inhabited; when I shall bring up the deep upon thee, and great waters shall cover thee;

20 When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;

21 I will make thee a terror, and thou shalt be no more: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou never be found again, saith the Lord God."

This prophesy is so easy to debunk that you can debunk it with a map. It was predicted that Tyre would be totally obliterated and never found again.

Here it is:

Tyre Map - Lebanon - Mapcarta

What happened to genez?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What happened to genez?

I don't know. I barely, I mean just barely got into the Tyre prophecy and he ran away.

Again.


Perhaps he realize how indefensible that particular prophesy is.

 

[Sayre]

Just out of curiosity - SZ are you an ex theist? I don't want to assume what theology you know about prophesy. I think it may be only one topic you disagree with.

 

[AV1611VET]

Just out of curiosity - SZ are you an ex theist? I don't want to assume what theology you know about prophesy. I think it may be only one topic you disagree with.

Someone around here claims to have read the Bible 30 times, and someone else around here claims he read the Bible from cover to cover in a week.

All the rest who read It talk about how revolting It was, yet they read It anyway.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Someone around here claims to have read the Bible 30 times, and someone else around here claims he read the Bible from cover to cover in a week.

All the rest who read It talk about how revolting It was, yet they read It anyway.

I don't consider it revolting (not every story anyways, I could have lived without Sodom and Gomorrah though, even the supposed good person in that story, Lot, didn't come off as anything but a turd to me). Some of the writing left a bit to be desired, but other parts were decent. I consider the bible to be kinda so-so. Really, 30 times?

 

[AV1611VET]

Really, 30 times?

Well, my pastor's wife has read it 35 times now, but then she hasn't deconverted yet.

I wonder what's keeping her?

Eleven times for me.

 

[Sayre]

The last two verses of jude perhaps?

 

[bhsmte]

Well, my pastor's wife has read it 35 times now, but then she hasn't deconverted yet.

I wonder what's keeping her?

Eleven times for me.

Same thing that keeps many, comfort.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Well, my pastor's wife has read it 35 times now, but then she hasn't deconverted yet.

I wonder what's keeping her?

Eleven times for me.

Yeah, but this is cover to cover in order. I can't usually make myself read any book, no matter how good, even twice, much less more than 10.

 

[Sayre]

I think people don't deconvert until they have something to deconvert to. It's incredibly difficult to wander around without the certainty of a worldview. I'll explain more when I'm not on my phone. Uncertainty is avoided by our brain be cause it makes us vulnerable.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think people don't deconvert until they have something to deconvert to.

No argument there.

I'll explain more when I'm not on my phone.

Multitasker!

 

[bhsmte]

I think people don't deconvert until they have something to deconvert to. It's incredibly difficult to wander around without the certainty of a worldview. I'll explain more when I'm not on my phone. Uncertainty is avoided by our brain be cause it makes us vulnerable.

Agree.

Changing one's identity in regards to such beliefs is not easy. Humans often take the path that creates the least turmoil in their head, until they can get to a point where the turmoil is manageable.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Agree.

Changing one's identity in regards to such beliefs is not easy. Humans often take the path that creates the least turmoil in their head, until they can get to a point where the turmoil is manageable.

Often, but not always.

 

[bhsmte]

Often, but not always.

Correct. It depends on one's psychological makeup.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Correct. It depends on one's psychological makeup.

Mine is basically my brain saying "nope, what you want to believe isn't gonna be what you believe, not happening".