It also says we are to submit to each other. You pick and chose in your criticism.
You didn't ask this question of me, but I think a common liberal view on this is that we are dealing with someone other than Paul who is using Paul's name. We see a progression from the undisputed Pauline letters, which teach mutual submission, and recognize women as leaders, to Eph and Col, which teach a fairly soft kind of submission, to the Pastorals, which see women as untrustworthy because of the Fall. It's also possible to use fancy exegesis to try and defang Eph, Col, and the Pastorals, but in the end I accept a straightforward reading of their intent.
You're posting in the liberal group. It's been my observation that most of us do in fact give priority to Jesus' teachings.
As a former liberal Christian, I have a simple question: Why bother if Christianity isn't really true? If the Bible doesn't really say what it says, if it wasn't really dictated by God, why even continue with the charade?
I dont see anything causing my belief in God and Jesus to change. I dont have a belief that the Bible is 100% God's Word though. I love God and follow where he leads. If your faith in God only relies on the Bible, then, to me, it seems like this is putting the Bible ahead of God.
That's a heavily debated view.Do you accept that Jesus taught eternal damnation?
Jesus didn't say a single word about homosexuality, and you're not allowed to condemn that here.Do you accept that Jesus opposed sexual perversion (i.e. premarital sex and homosexuality)?
That's a heavily debated view.
Jesus didn't say a single word about homosexuality, and you're not allowed to condemn that here.
Do you accept that Jesus taught eternal damnation?
Do you accept that Jesus opposed sexual perversion (i.e. premarital sex and homosexuality)?
Christ used the word "eternal."
I would ask in the spirit of understanding that you not accuse me of "condemning" homosexuality. I quoted what Christ called "fornication" which from what I know in the Greek is a term that means "sexual perversion." This has been traditionally been viewed as any form of sexual activity outside of marriage.
Lastly, you didn't answer the question. Do you reject these teachings of Christ? I mean, you are entitled to if you want, I am only quoting what He said.
Look behind a few posts: http://www.christianforums.com/t7811018-2/#post65219180
Do you accept that Jesus taught eternal damnation?
"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).
Do you accept that Jesus opposed sexual perversion (i.e. premarital sex and homosexuality)?
"For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders." (Matt 15:19)
Do you accept that Jesus taught that only those who believe in Him are saved?
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." (John 14:6)
Do you accept that Jesus taught that God chooses believers, that believers don't in effect choose God on their own?
"You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you." (John 15:16)
DO you accept that Jesus taught that those who are not obedient to what He commanded do not love Him?
"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Fathers who sent Me." (John 14:24)
Now, do we actually accept what Jesus taught or do we in each of these situations try to explain away that Christ did not really say what He said?
I also note that they are all from John, which would be my lowest priority source for Jesus teaching. Note that in a past response I said that I dont take even the Gospels literally. ... I dont think they replaced Jesus message with their own, but you do need to read each Gospel taking into account the specific viewpoint of the author.
The concept of marriage has changed so much that direct commands in the bible don't seem of much use anymore.
The principles though - of not abusing your power in a marriage for your own advantage - of consent, of sacrificial love - all those principles are still very important for sex and marriage.
I do not accept the bible as the inerrant word of God but I do accept as divine truth the teaching in it from Jesus that we can inherit eternal life if we love God and man and we can love God by loving man. I have no interest in defending the bible, but I do think the teaching I just referenced can be defended.
I don't have to. I can just follow Jesus.
Hedrick do you think Jesus quoted scripture?
I believe He did - but maybe as partly staking His claim of Jewishness by being a part of their writings and history.
This was not addressed to me, but He quotes Scripture in each of the Gospels. If you have in doubt that maybe he really didn't, what else did Jesus not really say? And if that's the case, what did He really say to begin with?
I would ask in the spirit of understanding that you not accuse me of "condemning" homosexuality. I quoted what Christ called "fornication" which from what I know in the Greek is a term that means "sexual perversion." This has been traditionally been viewed as any form of sexual activity outside of marriage.
First, why does everyone focus on the issue of homosexuality? I merely brought up the term "fornication" and its possible meanings (i.e. extra-marital sex).