A Pondering of the Peculiar (3)

[GenemZ]

Just curious. You did call them stupid.

You're broad brushing what I said.. This is what I quoted.

Proverbs 12:1

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
but whoever hates correction is stupid.
​

That does not say all Christians are stupid in God's sight.

Indeed, the perspective of not believing in things for which there is no evidence. It works for me.

I am sorry that you have no evidence. God can not be made to be a demonstrable chemistry experiment. So, you got no evidence.

Do you think of your beliefs as flawless?

Ask any person on the face of the earth that question.

I have many beliefs about many things. Your lack of being specific leads me to believe you think I must be a mind reader as to what you meant by that. Beliefs on what?

My belief of what? On the atonement? On soteriology? On premillennialism? Limited, or universal atonement? Angelology? Pneumatology? Christology? Hamartiology? Eschatology? Ecclesiology? Anthropology?

I probably still have a lot to learn. Me flawless? hardly. The more I learn something that I had no idea existed the more I realize never to be too sure of myself. But, when I do look in the mirror, I am sure I am not seeing another person.

When I see other Christians rejecting and neglecting sound teachings? I am sure that as flawed as I may be? I am still way ahead in understanding what they could also understand. But, not flawed? hardly.

Now... You think your beliefs flawed? Do you know without any uncertainty that there is no God?

 

[GenemZ]

27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write these words, for according to the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.[a]

Follows those wonky commandments.

I think it means that Moses wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant he heard over those days. They were finished.

Exodus 34:27

Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”

After Moses finished the words of the covenant, he added the ten commandments. The ten commandments were included in with the words of the covenant. The Ten Commandments were not the words of the covenant. They were civil laws for the theocracy because of the covenant.

The covenant was God's contract agreement with conditions between God and Israel. That is what we see in the first part of Exodus 34 being given to Moses. After its completion, the ten commandments were then added on last.

 

[bhsmte]

Why? What made you a Christian? What kind of background was it?

What made me a Christian? I was brought up a Christian and my personal beliefs made me a Christian.

Is this going to be one of those; you were never a "true Christian" type of deals?

 

[Loudmouth]

Ask God questions. Keep on asking. He will take care of that issue of doubt if your heart is in the right place.

Ahh yes, the infamous out, "if your heart is in the right place." I am also told that sometimes God's answer is "No".

If my prayers aren't answered, then I am told that either my heart was not in the right place, or the answer was no. I can get the same results by asking a blade of grass the same question.

I can not help you to know God is real.

Name one other thing that is known to exist where this is the case. Can I help you know that the Empire State building is real? The Statue of Liberty? Atoms? For things that really do exist, no such excuse is needed.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I think it means that Moses wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant he heard over those days. They were finished.

Exodus 34:27

Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”

After Moses finished the words of the covenant, he added the ten commandments. The ten commandments were included in with the words of the covenant. The Ten Commandments were not the words of the covenant. They were civil laws for the theocracy because of the covenant.

The covenant was God's contract agreement with conditions between God and Israel. That is what we see in the first part of Exodus 34 being given to Moses. After its completion, the ten commandments were then added on last.

That doesn't make sense, because a few of the rules on the wonky list match what people consider to be the traditional Ten Commandments.

 

[Davian]

You're broad brushing what I said.. This is what I quoted.

Proverbs 12:1

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
but whoever hates correction is stupid.
​

That does not say all Christians are stupid in God's sight.

Only the ones that disagree with you. Got it.

The bible is a big book to cherry-pick from. Like the stuff you threw at me; it didn't hit the target, but it was clear that it was meant to be hurtful, not to show that your beliefs are correct.

I am sorry that you have no evidence. God can not be made to be a demonstrable chemistry experiment. So, you got no evidence.

The evidence I have is the evidence you have. So, you got no evidence.

Ask any person on the face of the earth that question.

I have many beliefs about many things. Your lack of being specific leads me to believe you think I must be a mind reader as to what you meant by that. Beliefs on what?

My belief of what? On the atonement? On soteriology? On premillennialism? Limited, or universal atonement? Angelology? Pneumatology? Christology? Hamartiology? Eschatology? Ecclesiology? Anthropology?

I probably still have a lot to learn. Me flawless? hardly. The more I learn something that I had no idea existed the more I realize never to be too sure of myself. But, when I do look in the mirror, I am sure I am not seeing another person.

When I see other Christians rejecting and neglecting sound teachings? I am sure that as flawed as I may be? I am still way ahead in understanding what they could also understand. But, not flawed? hardly.

Back in post #667. You said, "He was using the flaws he perceived in believers as his excuse." The implication there was that the believers were without flaws.

Why do to take such offence at unbelievers pointing out the flaws in your beliefs, such as your lack of evidentiary support for them?

Now... You think your beliefs flawed?

They may be, but they are tentative. I do not hold on to a belief when there is superior evidence to the contrary. How about you?

Do you know without any uncertainty that there is no God?

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I see no reason to think of gods as anything other than as characters in books. Movies, too. Maybe there is some sort of pantheistic god, but why would anyone care?

Do you lie awake at night worried about extraterrestrial aliens abducting you from your house for the purposes of unpleasant experiments? I don't. Do you?

 

[GenemZ]

What made me a Christian? I was brought up a Christian and my personal beliefs made me a Christian.

Is this going to be one of those; you were never a "true Christian" type of deals?

There are cultural Christians. Its there upbringing. Its like taking on the particular accent in speaking from the place where you grew up. I was brought up Jewish. I am glad I was brought up a Jew, because Christianity was a culture shock for me at first. I knew everything had become new for me.

Then we have cultural Jews. They never question that they are Jews. But, these are only racially a Jew, not a true Jew. Just the same, God is preserving the Jewish race because they will play a major part in the future, but many are not saved. But, they think they are saved by default... but not sure what that means.

I do not know if you became a Christian. You might have entered into regeneration as a child. Later in life when you discover by design who are your peers, peer pressure is strong you can take on the mode of worldly thinking and later on still find yourself shaking your resurrected head in heaven some day.

For you are not saved by works. Being an atheist in your choice of expression does not undo regeneration. If at some point you simply believed Jesus died on the Cross for man's sins, its that simple. Many do not realize how simple salvation is. The difficult part is what follows regeneration. MANY regenerate people choose something other than what God would desire for them after regeneration.

Lets say... If you were born Irish? Both sides. Mother and father. Red hair and freckles Irish. You can not become genetically French by simply learning the language and moving to France. If you are born again? It can not be undone.

Si vous êtes né de nouveau? Il ne peut pas être annulée.


.

 

[bhsmte]

There are cultural Christians. Its there upbringing. Its like taking on the particular accent in speaking from the place where you grew up. I was brought up Jewish. I am glad I was brought up a Jew, because Christianity was a culture shock for me at first. I knew everything had become new for me.

Then we have cultural Jews. They never question that they are Jews. But, these are only racially a Jew, not a true Jew. Just the same, God is preserving the Jewish race because they will play a major part in the future, but many are not saved. But, they think they are saved by default... but not sure what that means.

I do not know if you became a Christian. You might have entered into regeneration as a child. Later in life when you discover by design who are your peers, peer pressure is strong you can take on the mode of worldly thinking and later on still find yourself shaking your resurrected head in heaven some day.

For you are not saved by works. Being an atheist in your choice of expression does not undo regeneration. If at some point you simply believed Jesus died on the Cross for man's sins, its that simple. Many do not realize how simple salvation is. The difficult part is what follows regeneration. MANY regenerate people choose something other than what God would desire for them after regeneration.

Lets say... If you were born Irish? Both sides. Mother and father. Red hair and freckles Irish. You can not become genetically French by simply learning the language and moving to France. If you are born again? It can not be undone.

Si vous êtes né de nouveau? Il ne peut pas être annulée.


.

My transition from Christianity to atheism towards the Christian God had zero to do with peer pressure, since none existed.

 

[GenemZ]

Only the ones that disagree with you. Got it.

So... You complain about me getting personal and attacking your character?

LOOK WHAT YOU DID!

It reveals your character as you continue to do such a thing.

 

[PsychoSarah]

My transition from Christianity to atheism towards the Christian God had zero to do with peer pressure, since none existed.

Who thinks people are pressured to be NON religious?

 

[GenemZ]

My transition from Christianity to atheism towards the Christian God had zero to do with peer pressure, since none existed.

You do not know what a Christian is. If you grew up in Lutheran home, Lutheranism (culturally) is Christianity to you. If it were baptist? Same thing. Heaven forbid you were surrounded by holy rollers. You were culturally a Christian. It is not about joining a club so to speak, and learning what to say and do as a norm. Regeneration is something you become inwardly and maybe without you being aware of it. Like with myself. I was not continuous of what had taken place.


I am not going to argue with you over it. You really do not know what regeneration entails. To you, Christianity is cultural. So, you removed yourself from the cultural system that displeased you. Much of Christianity is cultural today. Well, to be fair. Christianity does transform cultures. But, so does religion. But, denominationalism also establishes a culture by mixing religion in with regeneration. Its a hybrid way of life. Having one foot in religion (or secularism), and one foot in Christianity.


Have a nice Day.

 

[PsychoSarah]

You do not know what a Christian is. If you grew up in Lutheran home, Lutheranism (culturally) is Christianity to you. If it were baptist? Same thing. Heaven forbid you were surrounded by holy rollers. You were culturally a Christian. It not joining a club and learning what to say and do. It can be something you become inwardly without you being aware of it.

I am not going to argue with you over it. You really do not know what regeneration is. To you, Christianity is cultural. You removed yourself from the cultural system that displeased you. Much of Christianity is cultural today. Well, to be fair. Christianity does transform cultures. But, so does religion.


Have a nice Day.

Christianity is a religion.

 

[bhsmte]

Who thinks people are pressured to be NON religious?

Exactly. In the United States, coming out as an atheist, is about the same as saying you are gay.

So, this peer pressure thing, doesn't fly.

 

[GenemZ]

Who thinks people are pressured to be NON religious?

Christianity is not religion. Though what has become of Christianity in many cases has been saturated by a form of religion. I am non religious. Having grew up a Jew I was from the beginning exposed to religion. Religion in any form, to me, had always been seen intuitively as someone having a feeble right lobe.

 

[Loudmouth]

You do not know what a Christian is. If you grew up in Lutheran home, Lutheranism (culturally) is Christianity to you. If it were baptist? Same thing. Heaven forbid you were surrounded by holy rollers. You were culturally a Christian. It is not about joining a club so to speak, and learning what to say and do as a norm. Regeneration is something you become inwardly and maybe without you being aware of it. Like with myself. I was not continuous of what had taken place.


I am not going to argue with you over it. You really do not know what regeneration entails. To you, Christianity is cultural. So, you removed yourself from the cultural system that displeased you. Much of Christianity is cultural today. Well, to be fair. Christianity does transform cultures. But, so does religion. But, denominationalism also establishes a culture by mixing religion in with regeneration. Its a hybrid way of life. Having one foot in religion (or secularism), and one foot in Christianity.


Have a nice Day.

Just ask yourself how persuasive your arguments would be if we replaced God with Vishnu. I doubt that you would find any of your arguments persuasive if they were being used to concinvce you of the existence of a god you don't believe in.

 

[bhsmte]

You do not know what a Christian is. If you grew up in Lutheran home, Lutheranism (culturally) is Christianity to you. If it were baptist? Same thing. Heaven forbid you were surrounded by holy rollers. You were culturally a Christian. It is not about joining a club so to speak, and learning what to say and do as a norm. Regeneration is something you become inwardly and maybe without you being aware of it. Like with myself. I was not continuous of what had taken place.


I am not going to argue with you over it. You really do not know what regeneration entails. To you, Christianity is cultural. So, you removed yourself from the cultural system that displeased you. Much of Christianity is cultural today. Well, to be fair. Christianity does transform cultures. But, so does religion. But, denominationalism also establishes a culture by mixing religion in with regeneration. Its a hybrid way of life. Having one foot in religion (or secularism), and one foot in Christianity.


Have a nice Day.

Very very predictable response from a Christian - standard operating procedure.

 

[GenemZ]

What made me a Christian? I was brought up a Christian and my personal beliefs made me a Christian.

What denomination, may I ask?

 

[Loudmouth]

Christianity is not religion.

It most certainly is.

"an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods"
Religion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

With christianity, you have a formalized tenets of belief (i.e. Nicene Creed), ceremonies such as baptism and communion, rules such as no use of idols, etc.

Christianity is a religion. Always has been.

 

[bhsmte]

What denomination, may I ask?

Brought up Lutheran, but then went the non-demonization route for a long time.

 

[GenemZ]

It most certainly is.

"an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods"
Religion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

With christianity, you have a formalized tenets of belief (i.e. Nicene Creed), ceremonies such as baptism and communion, rules such as no use of idols, etc.

Christianity is a religion. Always has been.

Religion is man doing prescribed works, which were devised by men, being told that by following the system one will please their God/gods.

Christianity is receiving a real inward transformation that makes one able to perceive a spiritual connection.

I was without anyone telling me for about ten years after regeneration how to live. Only later was able to discover that the inward pressures I was taking on .. mysteriously not knowing why... was causing me to become a Christian in nature.

God knowing my mind, knew that if I received instruction from the beginning, that I would be conflicted about being propagandized and brainwashed. So He left me to be as a fish out of water for ten painful years of not knowing what was happening to me. I was being changed inwardly in ways I could not understand correctly. It was painful yet filled with a hope I could not explain to myself. Hopeful hopelessness.

Ten years later... and only ten years later... I was finally given a Bible in plain English. I became as a dying fish being tossed into a great lake. Suddenly it all made sense. I inwardly violently reacted to anyone trying to put a religious trip on me. To put it bluntly, I do not give credence to confident boastful stupidity. Or, what I perceive as smugness having an intellectual air in presenting the Bible.

Being born again is taking on a new nature that one was not naturally born with. Its one of being born a second time as to become as God intended man to be. Both physical and spiritual. All men are born physically alive and spiritually dead. God can not automatically impart the spiritual life because the fallen nature stands in the way. For we must first choose if that fallen nature is to be our god. If we do? We never enter into salvation.