A Pondering of the Peculiar (3)

[GenemZ]

It is groups within groups. All dogs are mammals. All mammals are amniotes. All amniotes are vertebrates. All vertebrates are deuterostomes. All deuterostomes are eukaryotes. Go to Tree of Life Web Project. Start here:

Eukaryotes

Start clicking on the branches that interest you.

What you will find is that adaptations stay on a branch. For example, only mammals have three middle ear bones, lactation, and fur. Birds have feathers, one middle ear bone, and do not lactate. A designer could mix and match features as it see fits, so if ID/creationism were true then we would expect to see species with feathers, three middle ear bones, and lactation, as one example. Instead, we see adaptations staying in evolutionary lineages, just as we would expect if evolution were true.

Someone has created a premise that began in an age where very few people ever attended college. Men of intellect were looked up to as having supernatural abilities to reason. Today that is no longer the case, but these men of intellect still think they possess their magic.

All those *details* you presented indicates that someone has an area of expertise in an area of categorizing details that the average man could never perform. Yet, it still does not by default make the conclusion a correct one.

The fact remains... and it is a simple one... we have information categorized by scientists. A list of lifeforms that began with the most simple single cell organism, and ascends in complexity .. AND ENDS WITH MAN. Yet we still have amongst us the primitive simple forms. Why has not everything entered into complexity?

It did not just appear out from nowhere by random acts of energy meeting matter at just the right moments. Why? Where did matter come from? Poof!? Where did energy come from? Poof!? According to the conclusions of your alleged scientific thinking .. scientists should be worshiping matter and energy. Why? For they would have to be ETERNAL to have always existed.

What you are doing is hocus pocus, in the name of destroying what you call hocus pocus. Its a lie. A lie originally created by atheistic intellectuals who where educated to the point where the common man could not approach and engage in a discussion. The answers to such things for the common man was to be found in religion.

But, those days are over. What is happening to evolutionists is like what is happening to newspapers in the face of the internet taking over. People today can be informed. Also, many who attend college discover that its not all what people used to make it to be. The image is gone. Intellectualism that permeated TOE is no longer seen as superior reasoning power. Only a superior ability to gather and categorize data. The conclusions are ludicrous. Why are they seen that way? Because of the very data they have collected! For it all just could not have happened on its own. Someone would have to be absolutely stupid not to see that. That's where the TOE crowd outdid itself. They were too impressed with themselves over what they could discover and know. Like Lucifer became arrogantly proud about himself because of the abilities the Lord had bestowed upon his design. It became his downfall.


Have a nice day.

 

[Loudmouth]

Someone has created a premise that began in an age where very few people ever attended college. Men of intellect were looked up to as having supernatural abilities to reason. Today that is no longer the case, but these men of intellect still think they possess their magic.

All those *details* you present indicate that someone who has an area of expertise in an area of categorizing details that the average man could never perform, still does not make your conclusion a correct one.

The facts do make my conclusion the right one. It is a fact that there is a statistically significant phylogenetic signal amongst complex life.

Sorry, but your "smart people are wrong" argument is not going to make the facts go away.

The fact remains... and it is a simple one... we have categorized by scientists a list of lifeforms that begin with the most simple single cell organism, and ascends in complexity .. AND ENDS WITH MAN.

No such categorization exists. Humans are at the tips of their branch on the tree of life, just like every other single species out there.

It did not just happen by random acts of energy meeting matter at just the right moments.

You are right. It happened through selection which is the opposite of random.

Why? Where did matter come from? Where does energy come from? According to the conclusions of your alleged science.. and scientists should be worshiping matter and energy. For they would have to be ETERNAL to have always existed.

More hot air.

What you are doing is hocus pocus, in the name of destroying what you call hocus pocus. Its a lie. A lie originally created by atheistic intellectuals who where educated to the point where the common man could not approach and engage in a discussion. The answers to such things for the common man was to be found in religion.

Show that it is a lie. I dare you.

But, those days are over. What is happening to evolutionists is like what is happening to newspapers in the face of the internet taking over. People today can be informed. Also, many who attend college discover that its not all what people used to make it to be. The image is gone. Intellectualism that permeated TOE is no longer seen as superior reasoning power. Only a superior ability to gather and categorize data. The conclusions are ludicrous. Why are they seen that way? Because of the very data they have collected! For it all just could not have happened on its own. Someone would have to be absolutely stupid not to see that. That's where the TOE crowd outdid itself. They were too impressed with themselves over what they could discover and know. Like Lucifer became arrogantly proud about himself because of the abilities the Lord had bestowed upon his design. It became his downfall.

All empty assertions. No evidence. 100% hot air.

 

[GenemZ]

The facts do make my conclusion the right one. It is a fact that there is a statistically significant phylogenetic signal amongst complex life.

Let's see how smart you really are. Reword that so that the average person can know what it is you are talking about.

If you can not? There is no way to know that what you just presented is not simply smoke screening as a manipulation to force your desired outcome on others.

Let see how smart you really are. Go ahead. Be understood. Can you? Or are you stuck in your world of walls that you want no one to get into? So you can sit back and feel safe because you think you are untouchable?

The facts do make my conclusion the right one. It is a fact that there is a statistically significant phylogenetic signal amongst complex life.

How does that prove our lives were derived from evolution? How?

 

[GenemZ]

You are right. It happened through selection which is the opposite of random.

But how it got to where it had selection, was the results of what originally was random!

 

[GenemZ]

More hot air.

It is? What I said was...


Where did matter come from? Where does energy come from? According to the conclusions of your alleged science.. scientists should be worshiping matter and energy. For they would have to be ETERNAL to have always existed.


Well then? Are matter and energy eternal? Having no beginning? Always being?

Explain how that can be! As we see everything aging and breaking down?

 

[Loudmouth]

Let's see how smart you really are. Reword that so that the average person can know what it is you are talking about.

I already did when I pointed you to the tolweb.org website.

If you can not? There is no way to know that what you just presented is not simply smoke screening as a manipulation to force your desired outcome on others.

There is a way. It is called getting an education, or learning on your own. You should try it.

Let see how smart you really are. Go ahead. Be understood. Can you? Or are you stuck in your world of walls that you want no one to get into? So you can sit back and feel safe because you think you are untouchable?

I'm the dumb one because I can understand the science, and you can not? Really?

How does that prove our lives were derived from evolution? How?

It proves evolution because it is exactly the pattern of similarity that the theory of evolution predicts. It is the same way that all theories are proven (beyond a reasonable doubt).

 

[Loudmouth]

Well then? Are matter and energy eternal? Having no beginning? Always being?

The hot air part . . .

"scientists should be worshiping matter and energy. For they would have to be ETERNAL to have always existed."

Explain how that can be! As we see everything aging and breaking down?

That is not what we see. We see many complex things building up. We see a single cell develop into human baby in just 9 months. We see life take in simple carbohydrates and nitrogen compounds, and then later those same chemicals are more complex and built up.

You are simply wrong, and reality demonstrates that you are wrong.

 

[Loudmouth]

But how it got to where it had selection, was the results of what originally was random!

The selection step makes the process of evolution non-random. It is not randomness that causes some beneficial mutations to become more common than deleterious or neutral mutations.

A good comparison is rain and rivers. Where a single raindrop falls is a mostly random process. So how can a random process result in rivers that always flow downhill? A random process could not do that, right?

Well, yes it can. Why? We are leaving out the non-random process of gravity. It is the same for selection and the progress of evolution.

 

[GenemZ]

I already did when I pointed you to the tolweb.org website.

I saw that. In effect it was a book for elementary school children.

But, explain what you mean here.

The facts do make my conclusion the right one. It is a fact that there is a statistically significant phylogenetic signal amongst complex life.

Put in simple terms for us morons. Just that sentence, please. Let's see how smart you really are. Can't do it?

 

[PsychoSarah]

That's toxins. It has many other functions. Your hormones would be out of whack if it were not for your liver.

Here: Liver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Physiology

The various functions of the liver are carried out by the liver cells or hepatocytes. Currently, there is no artificial organ or device capable of emulating all the functions of the liver. Some functions can be emulated by liver dialysis, an experimental treatment for liver failure. The liver is thought to be responsible for up to 500 separate functions, usually in combination with other systems and organs.
Synthesis

Further information: Proteins produced and secreted by the liver

• A large part of amino acid synthesis
• The liver performs several roles in carbohydrate metabolism:
  • Gluconeogenesis (the synthesis of glucose from certain amino acids, lactate or glycerol)
  • Glycogenolysis (the breakdown of glycogen into glucose)
  • Glycogenesis (the formation of glycogen from glucose)(muscle tissues can also do this)
• The liver is responsible for the mainstay of protein metabolism, synthesis as well as degradation.
• The liver also performs several roles in lipid metabolism:
  • Cholesterol synthesis
  • Lipogenesis, the production of triglycerides (fats).
  • A bulk of the lipoproteins are synthesized in the liver.
• The liver produces coagulation factors I (fibrinogen), II (prothrombin), V, VII, IX, X and XI, as well as protein C, protein S and antithrombin.
• In the first trimester fetus, the liver is the main site of red blood cell production. By the 32nd week of gestation, the bone marrow has almost completely taken over that task.
• The liver produces and excretes bile (a yellowish liquid) required for emulsifying fats and help the absorption of vitamin K from the diet. Some of the bile drains directly into the duodenum, and some is stored in the gallbladder.
• The liver also produces insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), a polypeptide protein hormone that plays an important role in childhood growth and continues to have anabolic effects in adults.
• The liver is a major site of thrombopoietin production. Thrombopoietin is a glycoprotein hormone that regulates the production of platelets by the bone marrow.

Breakdown

• The breakdown of insulin and other hormones
• The liver glucoronidates bilirubin, facilitating its excretion into bile.
• The liver breaks down or modifies toxic substances (e.g., methylation) and most medicinal products in a process called drug metabolism. This sometimes results in toxication, when the metabolite is more toxic than its precursor. Preferably, the toxins are conjugated to avail excretion in bile or urine.
• The liver converts ammonia to urea (urea cycle).

Other functions

• The liver stores a multitude of substances, including glucose (in the form of glycogen), vitamin A (1–2 years' supply), vitamin D (1–4 months' supply)[citation needed], vitamin B12 (1–3 years' supply), vitamin K, iron, and copper.
• The liver is responsible for immunological effects—the mononuclear phagocyte system (MPS) of the liver contains many immunologically active cells, acting as a 'sieve' for antigens carried to it via the portal system.
• The liver produces albumin, the major osmolar component of blood serum.
• The liver synthesizes angiotensinogen, a hormone that is responsible for raising the blood pressure when activated by renin, an enzyme that is released when the kidney senses low blood pressure.

...And, the liver just happened haphazardly along into being, by various random, lucky mutations, over the course of millions and millions of years.

Of course, all the first creatures with livers died because they did not have sufficient liver function. But, we must ignore that factor if we are ever to convince those creationists that evolution did it.

Bacteria don't have livers, but they do have organelles that can serve similar, but limited functions, of the liver. Just like some microbes can have portions that react to fluctuations of light, but you wouldn't consider them to be eyes.

Untrue, simple beings, even bacteria, need some way by which to filter away toxins that would build up in their systems otherwise. Simple "livers" doesn't designate a lack of function.

 

[GenemZ]

The hot air part . . .

"scientists should be worshiping matter and energy. For they would have to be ETERNAL to have always existed."

well.. I do not know if "worship" was the right term. Its more like being seen as reward plaques of merit. So, scientists can worship themselves. Admire their ability to observe and categorize, as a buffer against any self hatred they may suffer from. I think in layman terms, we simply call that pride.

That is not what we see. We see many complex things building up. We see a single cell develop into human baby in just 9 months.

What an inane example! Of course it does! Why? It has been pre-progammed to do that!

Genetically hardwired to do so! Its a prepared package before it begins to germinate. The real question should be? How did it get to be that way? Before it could? How were babies reproduced? Not only that? How did life perpetuate itself before it evolved to be able to sexually reproduce? Someone should make that into a movie rated R, for ridiculous. sperm is to be assigned to the man. And, the ovum to the woman. How conveniently lucky we are!

Now? Do we see that happen also with an amoeba? No! Why? Its not DESIGNED to do that! When your hair will turn gray? Is that not already pre-programmed into your genes? Yes! We are the result of biological programing from the hands of the Master software designer. Software data which controls our hardware!

We see life take in simple carbohydrates and nitrogen compounds, and then later those same chemicals are more complex and built up.

For example: Compost. It attracts other elements into the mix. From that which floats in the air, or seeps by land. More complicated mixes result. But, that can not explain how your heart, brain, lungs, genitals, ears, eyes , nose, and finger nails all came about. Why don't you have finger nails at the end of your nose? Our lymphatic system is remarkable! Its just all too wonderfully made by chance! .It makes a Swiss watch appear to be wood blocks in comparison.. And, to have just happened by chance lucking out? Not a chance! Atheistic Evolutionists are intellectually astute ...Having their intellect only being matched by their phenomenal gullibility. "It just happened!"

This just happened?

Your projected image OF SUPERIOR wisdom does not work on Christians. For, what you claim is inane as you try real hard to create smokescreens with complex data. A little humility would do you a world of good. Have you evolved into having humility yet? Or, have you evolved out of humility? Pride and arrogance is the superior man?

 

[GenemZ]

Bacteria don't have livers, but they do have organelles that can serve similar, but limited functions, of the liver. Just like some microbes can have portions that react to fluctuations of light, but you wouldn't consider them to be eyes.

They are surviving just fine! Fantastic survival rate! Why evolution, and they yet remain from the beginning?

Butterflies pay tribute every July 7th to the day of the Amoeba. Its their book of Genesis.

But, wait! Genesis was the past! Its not with us in the present. Can one have his past with him in the present?

 

[PsychoSarah]

They are surviving just fine! Fantastic survival rate! Why evolution, and they yet remain from the beginning?

Butterflies pay tribute every July 7th to the day of the Amoeba. Its their book of Genesis.

But, wait! Genesis was the past! Its not with us in the present. Can one have his past with him in the present?

A species can give rise to other species without going extinct itself. But I would like to remind you we did not evolve from bacteria, or amoebas for that matter.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Facetiousness and condescension does not negate common sense.

That was a serious question and a serious point. The fact that they do not make you look good is really not my fault. When you insist on remaining ignorant the questions have to be simplified to the point where you do look foolish when you answer them.

Open up your mind a little bit and when you learn you will not receive that sort of answer. Of course the problem is that if you learn how evolution works there is an extremely strong chance that you will accept it.

 

[Davian]

I saw that. In effect it was a book for elementary school children.

But, explain what you mean here.

Put in simple terms for us morons. Just that sentence, please. Let's see how smart you really are. Can't do it?

Who promised you that these scientific topics should be easy to comprehend, or can be made easy to comprehend? Do you not expect to make an effort on your part?

 

[Davian]

...

Your projected image OF SUPERIOR wisdom does not work on Christians. For, what you claim is inane as you try real hard to create smokescreens with complex data. A little humility would do you a world of good. Have you evolved into having humility yet? Or, have you evolved out of humility? Pride and arrogance is the superior man?

Are you done yet with the personal attacks?

Science is not incompatible with Christianity, as you seem to claim.

Did you not see my earlier references to the works of Francis Collins, evangelical Christian, and American physician-geneticist:

"Collins uncritically accepts and summarizes the standard big bang story (pp. 71–78),7 then discusses the Anthropic Principle"

Harmony and discord: A review of Francis Collins' book The Language of God

"As someone who's had the privilege of leading the human genome project, I've had the opportunity to study our own DNA instruction book at a level of detail that was never really possible before.

It's also now been possible to compare our DNA with that of many other species. The evidence supporting the idea that all living things are descended from a common ancestor is truly overwhelming.

I would not necessarily wish that to be so, as a Bible-believing Christian. But it is so. It does not serve faith well to try to deny that."

Scientist Francis Collins on evolution science faith religion genome gene language of God - Beliefnet.com

 

[GenemZ]

A species can give rise to other species without going extinct itself.

Example?... (I always like to learn).

But I would like to remind you we did not evolve from bacteria, or amoebas for that matter.

Evolve directly from?... no. Why even make that point?

According to theory all life began in its simplest forms... And, all the while, the simplest forms are still with us.

The theory of evolutionists have gathered a great deal of data in an attempt to show genetic similarities between different forms of life. All that reveals is that the same kind of building blocks were used in bringing this present creation into being. It does not prove evolution. They are simply making the data fit their desired conclusion. It does not prove anything.

The theory of evolution has evolved into a dogmatic hypothesis.
​

"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself."

 

[GenemZ]

Are you done yet with the personal attacks?

You're taking it as a personal attack. Its nothing personal. The trouble begins when someone analyzes what many already know, but are not willing to express.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Example?... (I always like to learn).



Evolve directly from?... no. Why even make that point?

According to theory all life began in its simplest forms... And, all the while, the simplest forms are still with us.

The theory of evolutionists have gathered a great deal of data in an attempt to show genetic similarities between different forms of life. All that reveals is that the same kind of building blocks were used in bringing this present creation into being. It does not prove evolution. They are simply making the data fit their desired conclusion. It does not prove anything.

The theory of evolution has evolved into a dogmatic hypothesis.
​

"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself."

The fact is that evolution is the only idea that the data fits.

For example there are all sorts of flaws that are found in various organisms that do not make any sense unless you look at the evolutionary path that those organisms followed in their development. The flaws make no sense at all from a creationist view point. One example is the laryngeal nerve found in all mammals. It takes a totally unnecessary route down around the heart:

Laryngeal nerve - RationalWiki

The best that creationists can do is to point out that it has other functions. Of course that still ignores the point that those functions would be better served if the nerve followed a straight path. Now in our fish ancestors this route made sense since it could follow a straight path. (which we no longer have). Today it makes no sense at all.

Evolution always works on "good enough" which results in certain weakness of our genomes. Perfection is too costly often. It takes too much time and energy when good enough works fine.

 

[GenemZ]

The fact is that evolution is the only idea that the data fits.

As far as what options?