Questions To Dispensationalists

[random person]

Do you believe Christ can return right this second?

Tonight?

Tomorrow?

Or does the Temple need to be rebuilt first?

 

[Danoh]

You do realize that the Overall Operating Premise from which Dispensationalism Deduces what it does DIFFERS from your own; right?

You need to deal with that first. And from an actual understanding of how that premise was arrived at, over whatever your own notions of what that how was/is arrived at.

 

[riverrat]

You do realize that the Overall Operating Premise from which Dispensationalism Deduces what it does DIFFERS from your own; right?

You need to deal with that first. And from an actual understanding of how that premise was arrived at, over whatever your own notions of what that how was/is arrived at.

All he is interested in is to start an argument.

 

[Danoh]

Perhaps, riverrat...

Its my hope, though, that some of these people come to understand that the sense of Paul's "HATH delivered us from the wrath to come" has to do with the FACT of our HAVING BEEN "crucified WITH Christ unto "the Law FOR righteousness" under which ISRAEL is prophesied said wrath's "refiner's fire."

We are NOT the Israel of God. It is that nation, both lost and saved, that said wrath's refiner's fire is to cleanse, for that is THEIR Covenant, Dan. 9; Mal. 3; 4; Matt. 3, we are "a NEW creature," Rom. 8, 2Cor. 5; Gal. 2-5, etc.

 

[random person]

Perhaps, riverrat...

Its my hope, though, that some of these people come to understand that the sense of Paul's "HATH delivered us from the wrath to come" has to do with the FACT of our HAVING BEEN "crucified WITH Christ unto "the Law FOR righteousness" under which ISRAEL is prophesied said wrath's "refiner's fire."

We are NOT the Israel of God. It is that nation, both lost and saved, that said wrath's refiner's fire is to cleanse, for that is THEIR Covenant, Dan. 9; Mal. 3; 4; Matt. 3, we are "a NEW creature," Rom. 8, 2Cor. 5; Gal. 2-5, etc.

And what does Ephesians 2:14 mean?

Ephesians 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

 

[random person]

All he is interested in is to start an argument.

I don't how scriptures can be anymore explicit than Ephesians 2:11-22?

That Dispensationalism is a false doctrine when weighed against this passage and the other in Galatians 3:22-29.

What about Titus 2:11?

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

What about John 14:6?

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

What about John 10:1?

John 10:1 "Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber.

What about Hebrews 5:9?

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

 

[Danoh]

Let's see - Ephesians 2 is waaaay after the Romans 11:25-29 pronouncement. Thus, Israel's Commonwealth is on hold and NOT what Paul is talking about. No matter how Dynamic Equivalency [the NIV's "what it means to me" INTERPRETATION of those passages would make them out to be,]

But, you go right ahead and ignore that, Randomperson, that's on you...

 

[random person]

Let's see - Ephesians 2 is waaaay after the Romans 11:25-29 pronouncement. Thus, Israel's Commonwealth is on hold and NOT what Paul is talking about. No matter how Dynamic Equivalency [the NIV's "what it means to me" INTERPRETATION of those passages would make them out to be,]

But, you go right ahead and ignore that, Randomperson, that's on you...

And what of John 10:16?

 

[Danoh]

Paul's having gotten saved and called unto his unique, completely unexpected Apostleship was both a sign of, and, a monumental game plan changer.

Unless you at least study that out you will continue to "what about this..." that, and the other passage "til the fulness of THE GENTILES be come in" "the eyes of your understanding" never having come to "the acknowledgement of the mystery... kept secret since the world began" that you continue to fuse together with that "which was spoken since the world began" as if they are one and the same "church of God."

Not mad at ya, just M.A.D. on these issues

 

[random person]

Paul's having gotten saved and called unto his unique, completely unexpected Apostleship was both a sign of, and, a monumental game plan changer.

Unless you at least study that out you will continue to "what about this..." that, and the other passage "til the fulness of THE GENTILES be come in" "the eyes of your understanding" never having come to "the acknowledgement of the mystery... kept secret since the world began" that you continue to fuse together with that "which was spoken since the world began" as if they are one and the same "church of God."

Not mad at ya, just M.A.D. on these issues

Because there is only one hope for Jew and Gentile (Eph 4:4); One fold of Jew and Gentile (John 10:16); One church (Acts 2:47, 26:18); One body (Rom 12:5; 1Cor 12:12-13); One family in heaven and earth (Eph 3:14-15), One Lord (Eph 4:5); One faith (Eph 4:5); One baptism (Eph 4:5); and One inheritance for both Jew and Gentile (Acts 26:18; Eph 1:11, 5:5; Gal 3:18).

 

[Danoh]

I'm sorry, but the more you write about this, the less you prove you actually understand, random passage, ur, person - John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of "the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL" Matthew 10; Matt. 15, IN LIGHT OF EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 34-37.

 

[random person]

Those passages in Ezekiel are speaking of the regathering of the Jews from captivity and coming of Christ and the New Covenant.

If fact, do you even realize what Ephraim is?

Hosea 7:8 Ephraim mixes with the nations; Ephraim is a flat - Online Bible Study Tools

It falls back to Genesis 48:19, behold the MYSTERY Danoh...

Genesis 48:19
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

And his father refuseth, and saith, `I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother is greater than he, and his seed is the fulness of the nations;'

Bereshis 48:19
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

And aviv refused, and said, I know it, beni (my son), I know it; he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly achiv hakaton shall be greater than he, and his zera shall become a multitude of Goyim.

Genesis 48:19
Jubilee Bible 2000 (JUB)

And his father refused and said, I know it, my son, I know it; he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of Gentiles.

Genesis 48:19
Darby Translation (DARBY)

But his father refused and said, I know, my son, I know: he also will become a people, and he also will be great; but truly his younger brother will be greater than he; and his seed will become the fulness of nations.

Genesis 48:19
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

But his father refused and said, “I know, my son, I know; he also will become a people and he also will be great. However, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his [a]descendants shall become a multitude of nations.”

Footnotes:

a. Genesis 48:19 Lit seed
b. Genesis 48:19 Lit fullness

 

[Danoh]

Randomperson, sorry, but yours is the spirit [attitude] of Genesis 3's "Yea hath God said..."

BOTH those two sticks in Ezekiel 37 represent ISRAEL'S future regathering into ONE SHEEPFOLD under ONE Shephard, NOT some notion of lost British, Mormon, or Gentile tribes, or what have you...

For anyone on here with ears to actually hear, consider the comments on the following link, following the various translations of the passage - comments based simply on believing the passages they cite their basis on.

Ezekiel 37:16 "Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, 'Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.' Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, 'Belonging to Joseph (that is, to Ephraim) and all the Israelites associat

 

[random person]

Randomperson, sorry, but yours is the spirit [attitude] of Genesis 3's "Yea hath God said..."

BOTH those two sticks in Ezekiel 37 represent ISRAEL'S future regathering into ONE SHEEPFOLD under ONE Shephard, NOT some notion of lost British, Mormon, or Gentile tribes, or what have you...

For anyone on here with ears to actually hear, consider the comments on the following link, following the various translations of the passage - comments based simply on believing the passages they cite their basis on.

Ezekiel 37:16 "Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, 'Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.' Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, 'Belonging to Joseph (that is, to Ephraim) and all the Israelites associat

Ephraim consists of Gentiles nations. (Genesis 48:19, Hosea 7:8).

Christ made two people one, Gentiles whom Ephraim mixed with and the Jews (Ezekiel 37:16, Ephesians 2:11-12,14-15)

Thus all Israel is saved. Remnant Judah and the Gentiles (Romans 11:25-26)

 

[Danoh]

For those with actual ears to hear, it is clear from Romans 9-11 that Romans 11's "And so all Israel shall be saved" is not only a reference to Paul's "kinsmen AFTER THE FLESH," but to THEIR salavtion WHEN "OUT OF SION SHALL come THEIR Deliverer, for this is My Covenant unto THEM."

Ignore this, randomperson, it is not for you, you are obviously unwilling to allow Romans 111:26, 27's "And so... For out of... to be what it is - the former, not only YET FUTURE, but the result of the latter.

 

[dan p]

Do you believe Christ can return right this second?

Tonight?

Tomorrow?

Or does the Temple need to be rebuilt first?

Hi , and in Rom 11:25 , a prophecy by Paul " that blindness in part is happened
to Israel , Until the Fulness of the Gentiles be come in ."

There are 5 verb and the one verb " is happened to Israel " is in the Perfect tense which means that when Israel was set aside , that is the Aorist tense and is also in the Present Tense which is Continuous action for over 2000 years ..

The Perfect Tense is a combo of the Aorist and Present tense

It is God's call as to when the Fulness of the Gentiles is come , Then the Jews clock will again tick and the 7 year Tribulation begin .

dan p

 

[random person]

For those with actual ears to hear, it is clear from Romans 9-11 that Romans 11's "And so all Israel shall be saved" is not only a reference to Paul's "kinsmen AFTER THE FLESH," but to THEIR salavtion WHEN "OUT OF SION SHALL come THEIR Deliverer, for this is My Covenant unto THEM."

Ignore this, randomperson, it is not for you, you are obviously unwilling to allow Romans 111:26, 27's "And so... For out of... to be what it is - the former, not only YET FUTURE, but the result of the latter.

Do you know who Paul is quoting?

Isaiah 59:20-21 & Jeremiah 31:31-34.


Paul is speaking of Jesus who is the deliverer out of Zion and the New Covenant. Look these OT passages up if you don't believe me. The prophecies were already fulfilled WHEN Paul wrote them.

 

[Danoh]

Genesis 48:19

And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude (fullness) of nations.

Hosea 7:8

Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

Psalm 106:35

But were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works.

You sure have an odd way of adding up two and two... The fact is that Jacob-Israel was reiterating to his son, Joseph, what God had earlier related to Jacob-Israel concerning BOTH Manasseth and Ephraim - that out of the seed of BOTH sons also - Abraham's, Isaac's, and now also Jacob's -Israel's PHYSICAL seed would be greatly multiplied into various ISRAELITE nations.

And we see this multitude of PHYSICAL Israelites by the time of Joshua.

While, Hosea is a book of REBUKE from its very first chapter to its last - AGAINST Ephraim's having gone AGAINST Moses NOT to mix with Gentiles.

I read your posts in light of that - against its simple truth - and I have to wonder what it is you are actually reading - its as if you simply do not care that you are ABSOLUTELY wrong about this issue... oh well.

Ask a "Native American" why they refer to fellow natives as "of another nation." Answer - of another TRIBE of basically the SAME ethnic peoples...

 

[dan p]

And what of John 10:16?

Hi , and most do not see that John 10:16 has 6 verb tenses and 2 are in the Future Tense !

#1 , First the Other Sheep is not the Body of Christ , for one !!

#2 , " They Shall Hear " is in the Future Tense and is not Applicable to the Body of Christ , period !

#3 , Or Applicable to the Dispensation of Grace !

#4 , The other Future Tense verb is " there shall be "

#5 ,The Future tense speaks to those Jews saved AFTER the Great Tribulation !

#6 These Jews become Kings and Priests in the Millennium , Rev 1:6 !!

dan p

 

[random person]

You sure have an odd way of adding up two and two... The fact is that Jacob-Israel was reiterating to his son, Joseph, what God had earlier related to Jacob-Israel concerning BOTH Manasseth and Ephraim - that out of the seed of BOTH sons also - Abraham's, Isaac's, and now also Jacob's -Israel's PHYSICAL seed would be greatly multiplied into various ISRAELITE nations.

And we see this multitude of PHYSICAL Israelites by the time of Joshua.

While, Hosea is a book of REBUKE from its very first chapter to its last - AGAINST Ephraim's having gone AGAINST Moses NOT to mix with Gentiles.

I read your posts in light of that - against its simple truth - and I have to wonder what it is you are actually reading - its as if you simply do not care that you are ABSOLUTELY wrong about this issue... oh well.

Ask a "Native American" why they refer to fellow natives as "of another nation." Answer - of another TRIBE of basically the SAME ethnic peoples...

Whose is Ephraim... one tribe of Israelites... a single tribe...

The prophecy in Genesis 48:19 says one Israelite tribe will become a multitude of nations...

How so? Ephraim is only one Israelite nation?

Hosea 7:8!

Ephraim is so mixed with the Gentiles ... he has become a multitude of half-breed nations. And when the Assyrians took Ephraim, this Israelite nation became lost and forgot its original identity due to so much mixing with the Gentiles so thoroughly mingled with the Gentiles. So in essence, Ephraim represents Gentiles and Gentiles represents Ephraim.

Thus when Ezekiel saw in a vision Ephraim and Judah made into one. What it is really saying that Gentiles and Judah are made one in Christ. Galatians 3:28-29, 6:15-16, Ephesians 2:14-15, Romans 11:17,23-26