A Pondering of the Peculiar (3)

[Davian]

Being a Loudmouth is a poor way to go through life...

I thought you were going to ease off on the personal remarks?

My mind is very open otherwise I would not believe in creation, but I question yours.

Are you open to the possibility that you are completely wrong, that gods are just characters in books, and your belief is built on self-deception? No?

Again, That is my argument. Weren't the stars already on fire instantly after your "Big Bang" and didn't those sparks or "stars" travel out to where the rest today? Isn't it possible they passed by the earth on there way out? Isn't it possible we are seeing the light of those stars, galaxies and super nova's as they were heading away from the earth in real time?

This cannot be that hard of a concept to grasp. I know you were not taught this concept that is why I am purposing it. It answers the question of time to distance theory and allows the universe to be younger.

Where do you get your ideas about cosmology from? Have these been fed to you from the pulpit?

Why do you think scientists are evil? That is a broad statement and is not correct by any measure. You have to agree, unless you are ignorant, that there is an agenda within the evolutionary science crowd. I bet you would say the same for the Creation Science crowd.

It would seem that you missed his sarcasm.

"You have to agree, unless you are ignorant"? Seriously? Can you not do better than this rhetoric?

I accept the Bible for what it is, The word of God. The great thing about the understanding that there is a Creator is that it answers the question that no evolutionary scientist can answer... Why we are here.

That words can be put together to form a question, does not automatically make the question valid.

There is actually a great verse that explains mine and many others life which goes like this... I was blind and now I can see. This the way it is when we used to believe in myths and aliens which never made any sense and now we get it. Most of you will not get it though because of your close mindedness and the refusal to believe there is anyone smarter than man. That is your downfall.

What evidence is there on which to support such a belief?

Also: how many times has our galaxy rotated during its existence?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Yes - parsimony makes sense in the context. There are simpler and more complicated models to explain beginnings. But you can only appeal to parsimony in the presence of equal explanatory power. Ockhams razor was only ever meant to choose between models of equal power, not between models of inequal power.

Ah, you used parsimonious in the meaning of frugal, and used frugal's meaning in that of simplified content?

You might want to reconsider that word of the day calendar, I have a language IQ of 150 and I wasn't entirely sure how you were trying to use that word.

Sometimes, you gotta go with the vernacular (common speech) to communicate with others.

 

[Davian]

This is a small list but shows the growing number of what you guys would call "Smart People" that have always been or moved to Creation as the answer for the beginning of the universe. Or are they just misguided also?
<snip>

By "Creation", do you mean "young Earth creation"?

Whatever you mean by it, can you pull one name from that list, for the scientist that can provide testable evidence for their beliefs?



Also, how many times has our galaxy rotated during its existence?

 

[Davian]

Yes, it seems p(deity|beginnings) is only marginally bigger than p(deity), the information about requiring a beginning adds little. But that isn't the point - the point is that none of those other solutions appear more parsimonious than the other.

No, I meant that they are all zero, including deities. How can you say that one is marginally bigger than the other? What information are you working with?

 

[Davian]

The Creation does show itself, one just has to look. When you look into an electron microscope and watch the tail twisting motor protein found in eukaryotic cells, to the beauty of a redwood tree in its majestic form. Think about the complexity of the electrochemical transponders in the brain and how the body keeps it balanced throughout life. The decay we are seeing is man made like Monsanto, over using anti-biotics, the pushing away from God. The Chem-trails that are being spayed on a daily basis of Nano particles of aluminum, barium and strontium are cause the cancer rate, Alzheimers and other illnesses to skyrocket let alone the crops that cannot grow in the heavy metal soils we now have. The Creation is being destroyed by some science and I think everyone knows it but some are unwilling to speak up.

Chemtrails? Those will only get you if you are not wearing your tin-foil hat.




When you have a sec, how many times do you think our galaxy has rotated during its existence?

 

[GenemZ]

So, to sum up, we are living in a better world than even seventy years ago, now that we have antibiotics and ozone therapy. Would you please tell the other poster things aren't as bad as he'd like to believe.

Teeth are better treated these days, if you are fortunate to find a good doctor with integrity. But, did you notice? People still get bad teeth. How is that making man better?

Murderers back then could only murder one person at a time. Now with advanced technology, he can murder many at once.

 

[Dizredux]

This is a small list but shows the growing number of what you guys would call "Smart People" that have always been or moved to Creation as the answer for the beginning of the universe. Or are they just misguided also?

Followed by a list of names.


This sounds like the Discovery institute list on the "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism"

If it is lets discuss this a bit.

First here is the statement in question"

We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.

The first part of the statement is: "We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life."

Anyone who knows anything about evolution would happily agree to this. Random mutation and natural selection by themselves do not account for the complexity of life. There are other mechanisms also involved including Genetic Drift which is a major one so I would totally agree with this part of the statement.

The rest of statement concludes: "Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged." Of course. That is what science does, makes a careful examination of the evidence. "Duh".

They brag that over 800 have signed.

As a counter to this there is Project Steve. Scientists whose first name of some form of Stephen (in honor of Stephen Jay Gould). The statement they signed is this

Evolution is a vital, well-supported, unifying principle of the biological sciences, and the scientific evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of the idea that all living things share a common ancestry. Although there are legitimate debates about the patterns and processes of evolution, there is no serious scientific doubt that evolution occurred or that natural selection is a major mechanism in its occurrence. It is scientifically inappropriate and pedagogically irresponsible for creationist pseudoscience, including but not limited to "intelligent design," to be introduced into the science curricula of our nation's public schools.

Through an error they left out geological sciences but that is a rather minor issue.

Now the Steve and its forms include about 1 percent of the total population in the US.

To date the Steve project has over 1300 signers.

Another point is that a little over 50% are in the biological sciences. It has both Nobel winning scientists with the name of Stephen.

So you want to post a small list of scientists es that signed a statement that any knowledgeable person would agree to, it does not impress.



Dizredux

 

[GenemZ]

Who said anything about being "perpetually" on antibiotics?

I said it.

You did not read what I said about that particular condition? I was on antibiotics and the doctor did not know what was causing my infection.

My dentist is the one who told me to extract the root canal. Most dentists would not have agreed with him because they accept the industry propaganda. He was right.

Also, a dentist can lose his practice if he tells a patient that his mercury laden filings can cause immune system and nervous system disorders. Lose his license. Political correctness? Nope... industry corruption. My dentist who warned me retired first, and hired a dentist to do the work. That way he could council and tell us the truth, and let another be the dentist. Like I said, he was a dedicated man. Also, a Christian. His honesty saved my life.

 

[GenemZ]

I hear they place a big chuck of glass in the middle of the factory floor. Then they blow it up. This is what they get from the same block of glass.

The manufacturer calls it the Big Bang, technique...

 

[HitchSlap]

Teeth are better treated these days, if you are fortunate to find a good doctor with integrity. But, did you notice? People still get bad teeth. How is that making man better?

Murderers back then could only murder one person at a time. Now with advanced technology, he can murder many at once.

Incorrect. Total annihilation of an entire planet save eight and a few animals two-by-twosies takes the cake, wouldn't you say? See, it's getting better all the time.

 

[GenemZ]

Ah, you used parsimonious in the meaning of frugal, and used frugal's meaning in that of simplified content?

I noticed that too. Decided to let it ride at the time.

 

[GenemZ]

Incorrect. Total annihilation of an entire planet save eight and a few animals two-by-twosies takes the cake, wouldn't you say? See, it's getting better all the time.

Man was not that many in number at that time of the flood. Man was yet in his infancy. Most likely, God killed off about as many evil, degenerate people, as modern day Hitler murdered Jews.

 

[GenemZ]

I hear they place a big chuck of glass in the middle of the factory floor. Then they blow it up. This is what they get from the same block of glass.

The manufacturer calls it the Big Bang, technique...

I like that!

(a preview of coming attractions)

 

[BrotherRickG]

Followed by a list of names.


This sounds like the Discovery institute list on the "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism"

If it is lets discuss this a bit.

First here is the statement in question" The first part of the statement is: "We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life."

Anyone who knows anything about evolution would happily agree to this. Random mutation and natural selection by themselves do not account for the complexity of life. There are other mechanisms also involved including Genetic Drift which is a major one so I would totally agree with this part of the statement.

The rest of statement concludes: "Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged." Of course. That is what science does, makes a careful examination of the evidence. "Duh".

They brag that over 800 have signed.

As a counter to this there is Project Steve. Scientists whose first name of some form of Stephen (in honor of Stephen Jay Gould). The statement they signed is this Through an error they left out geological sciences but that is a rather minor issue.

Now the Steve and its forms include about 1 percent of the total population in the US.

To date the Steve project has over 1300 signers.

Another point is that a little over 50% are in the biological sciences. It has both Nobel winning scientists with the name of Stephen.

So you want to post a small list of scientists es that signed a statement that any knowledgeable person would agree to, it does not impress.



Dizredux

Why don't you post one the list, I am sure you know one or two that agree with the Bible don't you? This list was made up of Young earth/Young universe believers. It is a fact that there is a very large group that do not agree and evolution in its entirety, that's OK right. If the facts were so absolute on evolution then there would be NONE on the side of Creation and Young Earth would they??? The reason science is failing is because it is not allowing for anything it does not agree with. Have you seen the movie; "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" by Ben Stein? That documentary depicts how the bullying goes on in the science crowd if one does not agree with the evolutional theory. If that is not a RED FLAG then what is? Maybe you guys are to smart to know better, I do not know. Very sad to have a "Christian" fall for this deception...

 

[BrotherRickG]

So why isn't the moon in our laps by now. It has had enough time in you timeline with the Lunar Recession to have totally destroyed the earth by now.

Ahh, there was a Lunar Recession Gap, right?

BTW, it think it is about 3.4 billion years past due. That is a huge gap.

 

[GenemZ]

So why isn't the moon in our laps by now. It has had enough time in you timeline with the Lunar Recession to have totally destroyed the earth by now.

Ahh, there was a Lunar Recession Gap, right?

BTW, it think it is about 3.4 billion years past due. That is a huge gap.

They borrowed extra years from the Chinese.

 

[BrotherRickG]

Chemtrails? Those will only get you if you are not wearing your tin-foil hat.
QUOTE]

This is just the latest evidence. If you were not so arrogant you would be looking around to see what else the elites are doing to our world. No matter what side of evolution you fall on you are missing the here and now.

According to Snowden, chemtrails are part of a ‘benevolent’ program to stop global warming. By cooperating with jet fuel manufacturers (and though he doesn’t say this, likely branches of the military) the government has been spraying the skies with chemicals in order to keep us from severe draught and other weather patterns which would cause famine in large swaths of the United States. But here’s the biggest shocker – with cooperation from Monsanto, a secret geo-engineering lab was set up, known by insiders as the ‘crown jewel’ or Muad’Dib. This lab has been operating since the 1960s without the knowledge of the people.

 

[BrotherRickG]

I thought you were going to ease off on the personal remarks?

Sorry

Also: how many times has our galaxy rotated during its existence?

I bet you would agree with me if I said 61; 13,500,000,000 / 220,000,000 = 61.

But we have a problem with that number. The stars of our own galaxy, the Milky Way, rotate about the galactic center with different speeds, the inner ones rotating faster than the outer ones. The observed rotation speeds are so fast that if our galaxy were more than a few hundred million years old, it would be a featureless disc of stars instead of its present spiral shape. Yet our galaxy is supposed to be at least 10 billion years old. Evolutionists call this "the winding-up dilemma (excuse, cough, GAP!)," which they have known about for fifty years. They have devised many theories to try to explain it, each one failing after a brief period of popularity. The same "winding-up" dilemma also applies to other galaxies. For the last few decades the favored attempt to resolve the puzzle has been a complex theory called "density waves (excuse, cough, GAP!)." This theory has conceptual problems, it has to be arbitrarily and very finely tuned, and has been called into serious question by the Hubble Space Telescope's discovery of very detailed spiral structure in the central hub of the "Whirlpool" galaxy, M51. More dilemmas, does anyone have the right answer or are we all to rely on FAITH. Either we believe in a purpose for life or we believe we are purposeless of life.

 

[Sayre]

I noticed that too. Decided to let it ride at the time.

Ah, you used parsimonious in the meaning of frugal, and used frugal's meaning in that of simplified content?

You might want to reconsider that word of the day calendar, I have a language IQ of 150 and I wasn't entirely sure how you were trying to use that word.

Sometimes, you gotta go with the vernacular (common speech) to communicate with others.

Umm how about no. Just because you had to look up the dictionary and it offended your sense of "language intelligence" doesn't mean I've used the wrong word.

Model parsimony is well understood vernacular, and in statistical and probability modelling they often trade parsimony for model fit using a variety of metrics.

Try looking up the following:

AIC Akaike Information Criterion
BIC Bayesian Information Criterion
DIC Deviance Information Criterion

Or take a first year statistics subject at university. Or maybe, just maybe, don't presume to know more than me about something without checking my knowledge first .

I have no idea why a word as basic as parsimony would be in the word of the day calendar.

 

[HitchSlap]

Why don't you post one the list, I am sure you know one or two that agree with the Bible don't you? This list was made up of Young earth/Young universe believers. It is a fact that there is a very large group that do not agree and evolution in its entirety, that's OK right. If the facts were so absolute on evolution then there would be NONE on the side of Creation and Young Earth would they??? The reason science is failing is because it is not allowing for anything it does not agree with. Have you seen the movie; "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" by Ben Stein? That documentary depicts how the bullying goes on in the science crowd if one does not agree with the evolutional theory. If that is not a RED FLAG then what is? Maybe you guys are to smart to know better, I do not know. Very sad to have a "Christian" fall for this deception...

Quite the boondoggle Expelled turned out to be huh? More lyin' fer Jesus.

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This ain't our first rodeo, cowboy.