Who said Job was blameless?

[Setyoufree]

THIS was perhaps Elihu's BIGGEST stumbling block and really revealed his pompousness (self-righteousness, self glorification, if you will).....seriously, delve into this, compare it with the condition of his heart, and then re-think who prompted him to think or say such a thing. It wasn't God.

In the very beginning of my thread I stated the following:

Before answering this question let's go to the end of the story of Job. This is kind of like one of those movies that shows the ending at the beginning of the movie.

Job 42:7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job's prayer

Notice that God never rebuked Elihu?

Now, why are you?

 

[brinny]

Elihu was dismissed, as was Job's wife. Neither were ever mentioned again.

There's a similar theme with Jabez. It appears that God puts some into obscurity, such as what happened with Job's wife and Elihu, and as demonstrated with those associated with Jabez.

Read post #206. Job was and remained a servant of God, from the beginning of the Book of Job all the way through to the ending. God speaks in those verses i listed about His suffering servants who no one comforts, and how He restores them. He also speaks of those who rail at and accuse and shoot arrows at His servants. IN addition He clarifies that a servant is called righteous ONLY through Him, and that if He calls His servant righteous, none can take that from him. He states quite clearly in Isaiah 54 that though they will gather together against His servant, they are not sent by Him:

"Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake. Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD."

God also states this earlier in Isaiah:

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" ~Isaiah 5:20

Job's four friends (and Job's wife) tripped their own selves up, for by their very own words and hard hearts they condemned themselves.

"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." ~I John 4:8

"If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?" ~I John 4:20

 

[Setyoufree]

Elihu was dismissed.....

Verse????

 

[brinny]

where's the rest of what i posted?

 

[brinny]

Gettin' back to Elihu.....my hunch is that Elihu ran fer the hills when God showed up, never to be seen or heard from again.....he prob'ly avoided Job and the land where Job lived like the plague.....to summarize, that's probb'ly all the conviction he needed when God showed up......he KNEW he was dead wrong and he KNEW he'd be dead as a door nail for mis-representing God like that....he was in BIG TROUBLE, mon hahaaaaaa

...if i was in his shoes, i'd a run too, as fast as my li'l legs could take me....

 

[Setyoufree]

Gettin' back to Elihu.....my hunch is that Elihu ran fer the hills when God showed up...

That's your hunch?

Well, "your hunch" isn't the Bible - it's speculation. Clearly you are making things up. That's adding to what the Bible states.


Job's 3 friends get rebuked, not Elihu.

That's the Bible....Anything outside that is direct attack on Elihu.

Why do folks attack Elihu?

1] They are just plain ignorant

or

2] They are self-righteous themselves and therefore they try to defend another self-righteous brother, Job.

 

[Setyoufree]

where's the rest of what i posted?

No, I asked the question!

You said "Elihu was dismissed"

Where's the verse????

Can't find it?

 

[Setyoufree]

Job 42:7 "After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has."

Notice absolutely no anger from God towards Elihu. Just Job's 3 friends!

8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job's prayer. 10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD made him prosperous again and gave him twice as much as he had before.


Again, notice who repented: Job's 3 friends. Keep in mind when one sinned a bull or ram (sometimes a sheep) was sacrificed for the forgiveness of sin.

Elihu wasn't instructed by God to repent through this sacrificial symbolism because he did nothing wrong!

 

[MoreCoffee]

please quote what i post in its entirety, thank you.

Why do you want that? Your 'entire post' is already in the thread so there's no need for anybody quoting you to reproduce your entire post. It is better to quote the part they want to reply to.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Job 36:1 Elihu continued and said: 2 "Bear with me a little, and I will show you, for I have yet something to say on God's behalf....

THIS was perhaps Elihu's BIGGEST stumbling block and really revealed his pompousness (self-righteousness, self glorification, if you will).....seriously, delve into this, compare it with the condition of his heart, and then re-think who prompted him to think or say such a thing. It wasn't God.

So you think saying something on God's behalf is pompous,
but Job saying he is blameless, didn't deserve the suffering and God is unjust is not.

Elihu spoke on God's behalf because Job's sin was slander against GOD, not against man. Elihu pointed out a sin against God, therefore he was speaking on God's behalf.

However, what is most telling of the condition of his heart is his lack of empathy (putting himself in Job's place), lack of compassion, his arrows, and many were they, and condemnation of the utmost kind towards a direly suffering, grieving Job, who had just buried all ten of his children, and was sitting in an ash heap with sores all over his body with worms in them, And here it is.......he didn't even pray for Job.

PURE CONJECTURE.
Absence of your expecting words of comfort is not proof that he never said any of the things. Remember the friends sat with Job for 7 days before the conversation started. I would bet they were all praying in that time of silence.

The bible says we are to point out unrepentant sins of our brothers. Elihu did this using Job's own words. For this reason Job could not refute him like he did to his 3 friends.

Can you at least admit that Job sinned?

 

[brinny]

Reost #230

Job's suffering wasn't because he was getting what he "deserved". That was established in the very beginning of the Book of Job, by God Himself, so much so, that it was repeated for emphasis.

God wasn't out to "get" Job or to "punish" him" or "teach him a lesson". From the beginning of the Book of Job to end, Job was and remained God's servant. That status did not change.

In verses beginning 8 through 17 of chapter 36 Elihu is telling Job that he is getting what he deserved, most notably in verse 17. Here he is saying that God's judgement is upon Job because of Job's great wickedness, and that Job's great suffering is evidence of God's judgement on him.

"But thou hast fulfilled the judgment of the wicked: judgment and justice take hold on thee."

What Elihu said here is the antithesis to what God Himself said in the very beginning about Job. He called Job His servant. He emphasized more than once that Job feared Him and eschewed evil (avoided evil). This established Job's standing before God. It is God Who defined Job, not Job.

Yet, in verse 2 of chapter 36 Elihu presumes to speak on God's behalf. This is right before he goes on to tell Job how wicked Job is and that Job is suffering because of His great wickedness and it is the judgement of God on him, and that justice is served by this suffering. In other words, Job is getting what he deserved:

The deaths of all his ten children
The sores from head to foot with worms in them
The tormenting of Job even in his dreams
His wife telling him to curse God and die
sitting day and night in an ash heap amidst dung hills
being spit on and taunted by children

When God appeared in a whirlwind and began speaking, it wasn't Job who had just been speaking, it was Elihu. It wasn't Job who God was referring to that "darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge." God had said to Satan in the very beginning that Job's suffering and great sorrow and catastrophes were done without cause.

It is recorded later in the book of James that Job persevered. "As you know, we count as blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job's perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about." ~James 5:11

The wager with Satan was over. Job had persevered. That is why God showed up. God also put an end to all the false accusations and arrows coming at Job. He was ending Job's suffering and starting with the shutting of the mouths of Job's accusers.

Then He counsels Job. What He is, in essence saying is that He is God, and there is none like Him. He also was reminding Job that HE was in control of all that took place, even if it appeared Job could not sense His presence. Here was God, speaking to His servant Job. Here was God "counseling" Job on His omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence. It was His invitation, if you will, for Job to confess Who God was and to worship Him. And Job did, confessing that before God he is but dust, a mere man, and prone to weakness and limited vision. God opened up some of His glory before Job and Job was floored. He had never literally heard God's voice or seen God appear in a whirlwind. He was at the very least, overwhelmed, done in, thus the falling on his face and confessing WHO God is and who he is (but dust). God showed up on the scene to make things aright with Job. The wager had been won. God's servant had persevered. Job's God had shown up. Job was being lifted from all that had transpired. Restoration and healing begins. It was Job's heart that God saw then, and before all of this transpired. And it was the heart of Job that enabled him to forgive his three friends and pray to God on their behalf with sacrifices. This is one of the reasons God said what He did about Job (Job's heart). He was a righteous, compassionate, just man. He had compassion on the suffering and the oppressed. He cared for widows and orphans. And he was a "praying" man, who worshiped and feared God, thus eschewing evil. This is why God said to Job's friends that Job would pray for them and it was only Job's prayers that He would hear and would not destroy them. "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." ~James 5:16

Job was in the beginning, and throughout the chapters of suffering, and in the conclusion of this wager, God's servant. His status as God's servant never changed.

Job had been in the "captivity" of Satan. “The Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.” ~Job 42:10.

Job persevered in the trial. "But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold." ~Job 23:10

He persevered, and came forth as gold.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

brinny,

Why won't you admit that Job sinned?

He admits it and repents.

How can one understand the book of Job without even understanding that Job sinned?

 

[brinny]

brinny,

Why won't you admit that Job sinned?

He admits it and repents.

How can one understand the book of Job without even understanding that Job sinned?

Understanding the Book of Job, as well as Job himself, is established in the very beginning by God's own Words. He defines Job Himself. Job was a Godly man, a servant of the Most High. He feared God and eschewed evil. Unless this is understood, the rest of the Book of Job will not be understood. To say Job was otherwise renders God a liar, for it was God Who defined Job.

(Did you read post #213? It was in response to you saying that Job was suffering because he was getting what he deserved?)

 

[granpa]

brinny,

Why won't you admit that Job sinned?

He admits it and repents.

How can one understand the book of Job without even understanding that Job sinned?

Gen 5:29
And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort H5162 us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.

Job 2:11
Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort H5162 him.

Job 7:13
When I say, My bed shall comfort H5162 me, my couch shall ease my complaint;

Job 16:2
I have heard many such things: miserable comforters H5162 are ye all.

Job 21:34
How then comfort H5162 ye me in vain, seeing in your answers there remaineth falsehood?

Job 29:25
I chose out their way, and sat chief, and dwelt as a king in the army, as one that comforteth H5162 the mourners.

Job 42:6
Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent H5162 in dust and ashes.

Job 42:11
Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted H5162 him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.


נָחַם

 

[MoreCoffee]

Understanding the Book of Job, as well as Job himself, is established in the very beginning by God's own Words. He defines Job Himself. Job was a Godly man, a servant of the Most High. He feared God and eschewed evil. Unless this is understood, the rest of the Book of Job will not be understood. To say Job was otherwise renders God a liar, for it was God Who defined Job.

Job was innocent of the things of which Satan accused him. Sadly some here in GT also accuse Job. It is instructive to understand that Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

 

[granpa]

the key thing here is that the devil is the "tester".
Job was being tested.

God on the other hand tests no one

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

the key thing here is that the devil is the "tester".
Job was being tested.

God on the other hand tests no one

God does not tempt.

What you say is not true, that God does not test.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Job was innocent of the things of which Satan accused him. Sadly some here in GT also accuse Job. It is instructive to understand that Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

It is sad that people here don't remember the words of Jesus.

Mat 18:15 “If your brother sins, go and point out his fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over."

Also learn the difference between Satan accusing us of sin and pointing out the sin of someone.

 

[granpa]

Greek Lexicon :: G3985 (KJV)
πειράζω
peirazō

to try whether a thing can be done
to attempt, endeavour
to try, make trial of, test: for the purpose of ascertaining his quality, or what he thinks, or how he will behave himself
in a good sense
in a bad sense, to test one maliciously, craftily to put to the proof his feelings or judgments
to try or test one's faith, virtue, character, by enticement to sin
to solicit to sin, to tempt
of the temptations of the devil


Mat 4:1
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted G3985 of the devil.

Mat 4:3
And when the tempter G3985 came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.



James 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Everyone that thinks Job did not sin needs to read this scripture.

40:1 The Lord said to Job:

2 “Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?
Let him who accuses God answer him!”

3 Then Job answered the Lord:
4 “I am unworthy—how can I reply to you? I put my hand over my mouth.
5 I spoke once, but I have no answer— twice, but I will say no more.”

6 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm:
7 “Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.
8 “Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?


38:1 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2 “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.

Job answers with:

42:1 Then Job replied to the Lord:

2 “I know that you can do all things; no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.
4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak; I will question you, and you shall answer me.’
5 My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you.
6 Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.”

The story of Job does not end at chapter 2.
It ends after Job repents of his sin to God. God then restores him double for he learned an important lesson.