Tiktaalik ha ha

[EternalDragon]

The real question is why aren't any of these found with trilobites in Cambrian layers.


That would mean either:
a. They evolved.
b. God created them much later.

A. is Correct. It is called speciation. That's why we have a variety of birds, rabbits, spiders and dogs.

 

[Black Akuma]

So all species of spider started from just one, 4000 or so years ago?

 

[Loudmouth]

A. is Correct. It is called speciation. That's why we have a variety of birds, rabbits, spiders and dogs.

Humans are a variety of primate, a variety of mammal, and a variety of vertebrate.

 

[Queller]

Um, yes they have. (Not the flounder, catfish and halibut) Research the Devonian period.

umm, no they haven't. If you want to claim they have then by all means show us some fossil lobsters from the Devonian. I'm not talking about an ancestor of what we call a lobster, I mean an actual fossilized lobster like I would find at the fish counter.

And the fact that you have to leave out the flounder, catfish, and halibut is rather telling. If you want to argue ecological zonation you can't just arbitrarily discard various organisms that should be found in the same zones.

Besides how do you know that the flounder, catfish and halibut existed as species before Noah's flood?

Why wouldn't they have? Are you claiming that evolution acted orders of magnitude faster that science postulates it can in order to have so many different types of fish in only the 4,300 years since the flood?

 

[Queller]

A. is Correct. It is called speciation. That's why we have a variety of birds, rabbits, spiders and dogs.

I guess that answers my question on whether you believe in superduperhyper evolution.

 

[EternalDragon]

So all species of spider started from just one, 4000 or so years ago?

Who said it was one? Of course no one knows, though.

 

[Black Akuma]

Who said it was one? Of course no one knows, though.

So what makes you think there were any species at all ? Also, could you please stop skipping over points?

 

[EternalDragon]

umm, no they haven't. If you want to claim they have then by all means show us some fossil lobsters from the Devonian. I'm not talking about an ancestor of what we call a lobster, I mean an actual fossilized lobster like I would find at the fish counter.

And the fact that you have to leave out the flounder, catfish, and halibut is rather telling. If you want to argue ecological zonation you can't just arbitrarily discard various organisms that should be found in the same zones.

Why wouldn't they have? Are you claiming that evolution acted orders of magnitude faster that science postulates it can in order to have so many different types of fish in only the 4,300 years since the flood?

Sea levels in the Devonian were generally high. Marine faunas continued to be dominated by bryozoa, diverse and abundant brachiopods, the enigmatic hederelloids, microconchids and corals. Lily-like crinoids (animals, their resemblance to flowers notwithstanding) were abundant, and trilobites were still fairly common. Among vertebrates, jaw-less armored fish (ostracoderms) declined in diversity, while the jawed fish (gnathostomes) simultaneously increased in both the sea and fresh water. Armored placoderms were numerous during the lower stages of the Devonian Period and became extinct in the Late Devonian, perhaps because of competition for food against the other fish species. Early cartilaginous (Chondrichthyes) and bony fishes (Osteichthyes) also become diverse and played a large role within the Devonian seas. The first abundant genus of shark, Cladoselache, appeared in the oceans during the Devonian Period. The great diversity of fish around at the time, have led to the Devonian being given the name "The Age of Fish" in popular culture.
The first ammonites also appeared during or slightly before the early Devonian Period around 400 Mya.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devonian

(Notice how everything "just appeared" there.)

 

[Loudmouth]

Sea levels in the Devonian were generally high. Marine faunas continued to be dominated by bryozoa, diverse and abundant brachiopods, the enigmatic hederelloids, microconchids and corals. Lily-like crinoids (animals, their resemblance to flowers notwithstanding) were abundant, and trilobites were still fairly common. Among vertebrates, jaw-less armored fish (ostracoderms) declined in diversity, while the jawed fish (gnathostomes) simultaneously increased in both the sea and fresh water. Armored placoderms were numerous during the lower stages of the Devonian Period and became extinct in the Late Devonian, perhaps because of competition for food against the other fish species. Early cartilaginous (Chondrichthyes) and bony fishes (Osteichthyes) also become diverse and played a large role within the Devonian seas. The first abundant genus of shark, Cladoselache, appeared in the oceans during the Devonian Period. The great diversity of fish around at the time, have led to the Devonian being given the name "The Age of Fish" in popular culture.
The first ammonites also appeared during or slightly before the early Devonian Period around 400 Mya.

Devonian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Notice how everything "just appeared" there.)

No whales. No dolphins. On land there were no mammals, no reptiles, no birds, no flowering plants, and no grasses. How do you explain this?

 

[Queller]

Sea levels in the Devonian were generally high. Marine faunas continued to be dominated by bryozoa, diverse and abundant brachiopods, the enigmatic hederelloids, microconchids and corals. Lily-like crinoids (animals, their resemblance to flowers notwithstanding) were abundant, and trilobites were still fairly common. Among vertebrates, jaw-less armored fish (ostracoderms) declined in diversity, while the jawed fish (gnathostomes) simultaneously increased in both the sea and fresh water. Armored placoderms were numerous during the lower stages of the Devonian Period and became extinct in the Late Devonian, perhaps because of competition for food against the other fish species. Early cartilaginous (Chondrichthyes) and bony fishes (Osteichthyes) also become diverse and played a large role within the Devonian seas. The first abundant genus of shark, Cladoselache, appeared in the oceans during the Devonian Period. The great diversity of fish around at the time, have led to the Devonian being given the name "The Age of Fish" in popular culture.
The first ammonites also appeared during or slightly before the early Devonian Period around 400 Mya.

Devonian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All those embedded links and not a single crab, crayfish, lobster, halibut, flounder, or catfish among them. I thought you said they existed at the same time?

(Notice how everything "just appeared" there.)

They "just appeared" there because there was finally something solid enough to not deteriorate before it could be fossilized. Prior to that, there wasn't.

 

[Black Akuma]

(Notice how everything "just appeared" there.)

Also, why are you quoting something the actual article didn't say? It never says they 'just' appeared. It's almost as if you're trying to make it sound like the article is implying that they showed up with absolutely no precursor, but that's not true - we have fossils that go back much further than that.

 

[CabVet]

Also, why are you quoting something the actual article didn't say?

That's a dishonest debate tactic known a straw man. He changes what the article says into something that he can actually debunk (while never coming even close to doing anything to the actual argument).

 

[EternalDragon]

No whales. No dolphins. On land there were no mammals, no reptiles, no birds, no flowering plants, and no grasses. How do you explain this?

Buried environment. Not time period. How many times should I say it?

 

[Black Akuma]

Buried environment. Not time period. How many times should I say it?

If that's the case, you need to explain why this environment is completely devoid of things we would expect to be down there, like pleisiosaurs, amphibians, mammals of any kind, et cetera.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Buried environment. Not time period. How many times should I say it?

Once again, if that were the case we could find earlier strata that had orcas and trilobites or mosasaurs. We don't. Your buried environment claim fails.


If you can't find animals that were supposedly created at the same time in the same strata then you are obviously wrong.


E.D, perhaps you should try to study up a bit on a combination of paleontology and stratigraphy. It would help your arguments if you really understood what you were arguing against and it would save you from making foolish mistakes.

 

[EternalDragon]

That's a dishonest debate tactic known a straw man. He changes what the article says into something that he can actually debunk (while never coming even close to doing anything to the actual argument).

It says they appeared. Maybe I am reading more into it but nothing really explains how these creatures evolved. It seems they just appear in the fossil record.

They weave quite a fascinating story about what they think happened without any real evidence that it happened. Seems like fiction to me.

The Devonian Period

Life of the Devonian

 

[Black Akuma]

It says they appeared.

But not that they "just appeared". Saying they 'just' appeared applies they came out of nowhere. They didn't.

If you want to learn about the evolution of fish, why not look for, you know...

Evolution of fish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This.

 

[CabVet]

It says they appeared.

That's not what you said, you said they "just appeared".

Maybe I am reading more into it but nothing really explains how these creatures evolved. It seems they just appear in the fossil record.

No, they don't just appear, they evolve. You are reading more into it because you already have a conclusion, the conclusion that they did not evolve. The reason why you don't get it is simply because you don't want to get it. Also, that text is very simplified, if you really wanted to understand this, you would have to read a lot more, and I have a feeling you don't want to do that.

They weave quite a fascinating story about what they think happened without any real evidence that it happened. Seems like fiction to me.

What exactly is claimed without evidence? Can you give one example?

The Devonian Period

Life of the Devonian

There is plenty of evidence supporting what is said in the links above, it is not fiction if you have rocks to support it. Again, the above text is very simplified, I can recommend many good books if you want to get into the details of the evidence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It says they appeared. Maybe I am reading more into it but nothing really explains how these creatures evolved. It seems they just appear in the fossil record.

They weave quite a fascinating story about what they think happened without any real evidence that it happened. Seems like fiction to me.

The Devonian Period

Life of the Devonian

In a short article it is impossible to go over all of the evidence. Rather than slandering people that you do not know why not look into the evidence. You should know by now that short articles do not even begin to get into all of the science and evidence involved.

The fact is that there is massive evidence supporting these claims, you just want to ignore it.

 

[CabVet]

Haha, three post in a row saying roughly the same thing, good one.