Homosexual brother is angry with me and refuses to understand

[amandatea]

This needs requoted because it's true.

You can witness, befriend, support, be a witness, and love anyone OUTSIDE of a wedding. A same-sex wedding is a celebration of something God is AGAINST.

I admire you for standing up for your beliefs, especially at the potential cost of your brother's relationship. If your brother respected you, he would respect your beliefs.

If someone you loved who was a Christian was marrying an unbeliever, would you go to the wedding?

I have rarely seen people make a huge stink about that, but that is something God also commands against.

What I'm seeing on this thread is that homosexuality is this big gigantic sin that trumps all others and that is not the truth at all.

Anyway, the reason his brother is angry, I'm betting, is because of how he's been treated and continues to be treated by the OP and others.

 

[Spunkn]

If someone you loved who was a Christian was marrying an unbeliever, would you go to the wedding?

I have rarely seen people make a huge stink about that, but that is something God also commands against.

What I'm seeing on this thread is that homosexuality is this big gigantic sin that trumps all others and that is not the truth at all.

Anyway, the reason his brother is angry, I'm betting, is because of how he's been treated and continues to be treated by the OP and others.

A few years, yes I probably would have gone. Now? No, I don't think I would.

However, the difference in the case of an unbeliever marrying a believer is that you are having to make a judgement call whether or not someone is a believer in order to make that decision. Only God truly knows who believes and who does not. If they flat out state that they are an unbeliever, then that's a different case, but we can't make a judgement call either if someone does profess to be a Christian, but their life doesn't necessarily reflect that.

 

[Spunkn]

God did not dictate the Bible to human stenographers. The writers were fully formed people with their own perspectives, prejudices, and areas of both expertise and ignorance.



And yet God also created gay people, who are no romantically attracted to members of the opposite sex, but who are romantically attracted to members of their own sex. Either he made us "wrong," or there's more to the issue than your interpretation of a translation of texts that are thousands of years old may allow.



In the Old Testament, sure. But in the New Testament, the references are thin, and the words used in the original languages are unclear (one of the key words appears to have been coined by Paul, and used so infrequently in other writings that its meaning is very open to debate).



I'd argue that's what you're doing: using chosen interpretations of the Bible to support your preexisting prejudices.

The writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Scripture is God-breathed.

There is no difference in how God views homosexuality when it comes to OT vs. NT. Jesus even quotes Genesis. God created marriage for male and female. Lots of people have issues that their born with. I'm not denying people who struggle with homosexuality, what I arguing is that God is not okay with it. God does not "make" anybody wrong, but that doesn't mean we each dont have our own struggles either because of sin.

 

[Spunkn]

Anyway, the reason his brother is angry, I'm betting, is because of how he's been treated and continues to be treated by the OP and others.

The reason people are upset, is because they want everyone to accept their lifestyle and be okay with it, and for no one to challenge them and say their wrong.

If someone came to me, and said sorry but I can't come to your Christian wedding because of my beliefs, I'd say well that's unfortunate, but I respect your position.

 

[amandatea]

A few years, yes I probably would have gone. Now? No, I don't think I would.

However, the difference in the case of an unbeliever marrying a believer is that you are having to make a judgement call whether or not someone is a believer in order to make that decision. Only God truly knows who believes and who does not. If they flat out state that they are an unbeliever, then that's a different case, but we can't make a judgement call either if someone does profess to be a Christian, but their life doesn't necessarily reflect that.

I don't disagree with what you were saying here. But my point in asking that question is that there are a lot of things that people do that is against God's commandments/laws that most christians aren't as judgemental about as they are about homosexuality. It's a bit hypocritical, if you ask me. All sin is equal in God's eyes.

 

[Emil Rez52]

Unbelievers are subhumans now, I take it. Great message to send.

 

[Inkachu]

To excuse one sin more than another by accusing people of making a bigger deal of it than you think should be made... is the equivalent of spitting in God's eye. Is one sin LESS than another because someone makes another sin a "bigger deal" in your opinion? Does that somehow excuse the first sin?

To say "you wouldn't be saying/doing this if it weren't about gay people!" is insulting to everyone reading this thread AND a pitiful attempt at distraction from the whole point of the thread to begin with!

The OP is so CLEAR in his love and support of his brother. Not attending the ceremony should not be a reason for their entire relationship to crumble. Their relationship isn't built on one day or one event, but a lifetime of being brothers. Allow the OP the grace to stand on his convictions and do what he feels is right. So many of you are SO quick to extend grace and defense to his brother's lifestyle, yet not so quick to allow the OP to have his own stance. Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[sunlover1]

If someone you loved who was a Christian was marrying an unbeliever, would you go to the wedding?

I have rarely seen people make a huge stink about that, but that is something God also commands against.

Sure they do.
My friends grandma wouldn't even attend her wedding
because she was marrying a non catholic Christian.
Happens all the time, really.

What I'm seeing on this thread is that homosexuality is this big gigantic sin that trumps all others and that is not the truth at all.

You would that the OP would go against his conscience to be a man pleaser?
not me!
Mike, I will tell you what I would do, were I in your shoes.
I'd fast and pray until God gives you a clear word.
I realize that you're feeling led not to go,
And that may be what He'll say.
But your brother is worth this sacrifice
for you to hear God. Fasting destroys
every yoke of bondage.
You'll be shocked at what your Daddy will
do for you/in you/through you.. if you pray
that HIS WILL BE DONE for your bro and for you.

Fasting seems tough, but it's nothing compared to
losing a brother.
I'd set my mind on it and stand for my brother.

Anyway, the reason his brother is angry, I'm betting, is because of how he's been treated and continues to be treated by the OP and others.

I think MtoM loves his brother.
He's trying to obey His Father.
He needs help, just like all of us.
He's reaching out to God's people.
Let's support him.

 

[amandatea]

To excuse one sin more than another by accusing people of making a bigger deal of it than you think should be made... is the equivalent of spitting in God's eye. Is one sin LESS than another because someone makes another sin a "bigger deal" in your opinion? Does that somehow excuse the first sin?

To say "you wouldn't be saying/doing this if it weren't about gay people!" is insulting to everyone reading this thread AND a pitiful attempt at distraction from the whole point of the thread to begin with!

The OP is so CLEAR in his love and support of his brother. Not attending the ceremony should not be a reason for their entire relationship to crumble. Their relationship isn't built on one day or one event, but a lifetime of being brothers. Allow the OP the grace to stand on his convictions and do what he feels is right. So many of you are SO quick to extend grace and defense to his brother's lifestyle, yet not so quick to allow the OP to have his own stance. Pot. Kettle. Black.

Just to clarify - I'm not saying that at all. Thanks.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

There are also churches that interpret Mark 14:51-52 as Jesus being gay, as to fit their agenda. Maybe we should start giving that some credit and respect too, eh?

I'm not interested in your utterly wrong and unbiblical Episcopal views, Fireball.

Both the interpretation I posted and the Episcopal view is filth.

 

[sunlover1]

This might be a helpful Christian article:

The Painful Truth About Gay Pleasure

I’ve never hunted ducks, and I’ve never watched Duck Dynasty, so I didn’t rush to defend Phil Robertson last month after the bearded reality TV star sparked an uproar with his comments about homosexuality. I do believe everyone is entitled to their opinion about religion, so I was amazed that people were calling for Robertson’s head just because he dared to quote a Bible verse that says homosexuals (along with adulterers, fornicators, idolaters and swindlers) won’t go to heaven.
The Duck Dynasty hullabaloo proved many things: (1) A lot of people in America today love to make fun of conservative Southerners; ...​

 

[Fireball1244]

There are also churches that interpret Mark 14:51-52 as Jesus being gay, as to fit their agenda. Maybe we should start giving that some credit and respect too, eh?

I've never heard such an interpretation. It's rather well known that the young man in those verses is St. Mark himself. Traditionally it is believed that Mark's family was very rich, and that the garden Jesus was praying in the night before he was crucified was in fact owned by Mark's family.

I'm not interested in your utterly wrong and unbiblical Episcopal views, Fireball.

Bless your heart, young man.

 

[sunlover1]

I've never heard such an interpretation. It's rather well known that the young man in those verses is St. Mark himself. Traditionally it is believed that Mark's family was very rich, and that the garden Jesus was praying in the night before he was crucified was in fact owned by Mark's family.



Bless your heart, young man.

They've also suggested that Jonathan and David were lovers.


How I Know David and Jonathan Weren't Gay

...It is illogical to read homosexuality into the story of David and Jonathan because neither Jewish nor early Christian tradition ever endorses sex outside the bounds of heterosexual marriage. If you read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, you will never see a depiction of a gay relationship, ever. Nor will you see homosexuality affirmed. You cannot get around the fact that the Bible says gay sex is flat-out wrong.
But that doesn’t mean people won’t try to change the meaning of Scripture. “Theologians” from both Catholic and Protestant backgrounds have written books claiming that various Bible characters were gay. They have suggested that Ruth and Naomi were lesbian lovers; that the Roman centurion in Matthew 8 had a gay relationship with his servant; and that the disciple John had a homoerotic relationship with Jesus.
Gay-affirming theologians also have pounced on the story of David and Jonathan. They point to David’s words in 2 Samuel 1:26 when he eulogized Jonathan and Saul: “I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; you have been very pleasant to me. Your love to me was more wonderful than the love of women” (NASB).
So how do we interpret this verse? We need to keep these points in mind:...

 

[bcmom]

I can't say whether you should attend your brothers "ceremony", but I would like to call your attention to some scripture that is on point, in my opinion...
" 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
" 17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Mark 2:16-17
"And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples." Matthew 9:10
Would Jesus have gone to your brothers ceremony? Perhaps but He was without fault.
Should you attend your brother's ceremony? That is something you need to prayerfully consider. Only you and God can decide if it's right for you.
You brother says you agreed to be his best man before you accepted Christ as your Lord two years ago, but you're another creation (2Corinthians 5:17) in Christ, your brother doesn't understand that because he's not a Christian. I wouldn't let this promise sway you one way or another.
God Bless you and yours.

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

I don't disagree with what you were saying here. But my point in asking that question is that there are a lot of things that people do that is against God's commandments/laws that most christians aren't as judgemental about as they are about homosexuality. It's a bit hypocritical, if you ask me. All sin is equal in God's eyes.

I understand what you are saying ,and that is one should not single a particular sin out and impose much harsher standard on it.

I have never ever heard of a Christian not attending a friend's wedding because their friend who is a Christian marrying a non Christian.

I think many Christians seem to go out of their way to justify the much harsher standard they want to impose on homosexuality.

the bottom line is, God never says "thou shall not attend a gay wedding"

but I can see why some Christians might be uncomfortable with it

if only they are willing to be consistent in applying that standard

but it is rarely the case.

I think you are not going to convince anyone who already made up their mind on this one.

but I do think that Scripture tells us clearly the same measure we use on others will also be the same measure God use on us, and the reality is just because for most Christians, homosexuality is something they never be tempted with, hence they can be as harsh with people who are tempted by this particular sin as they like, but by doing so, they themselves are ignoring God words at their own peril...

God can not be mocked.......

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

Stand by your principles, just know you have one less brother as of now. It's all a matter of priorities.

if this principle stands, no Christians could have any type of relationship or ability to continue make witness to their non Christian families.

love the sinner hate the sin.

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

It's clear that the brother's motive is to have his family with him on a day that is very important and special to him. His brother is in love with someone, and wants his family with him to celebrate their marriage.

Gay people aren't very different from you. We have the same motivations, the same loves, the same feelings and emotions, the same hopes and dreams. We get married for the same reasons other people get married, and invite our friends and families to join us for the same reason that you invited your friends and family to join you at your wedding.

Stop speaking of gay people as though we are some craven, untrustworthy, evil "other" that is plotting against you. We're not.

I agree

who says there is a universal interpretation of one attending a wedding?

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

Fireball people have twisted scripture to mean what they want. I came across these 2 verses. While there are plenty more I would like to know how anyone could take these out of context to say the Bible is ok with homosexuality.

2. Leviticus 18:22: " Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

3. Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Now if those can be taken an explained where it says the Bible is ok with homosexuality then I will be amazed.

this is true.

 

[parsley]

My friends grandma wouldn't even attend her wedding
because she was marrying a non catholic Christian.
Happens all the time, really.

True. We all hear of a parent not attending bc they didn't like the betrothed or family, or cutting off relationship with a child due to religions and culture. Some don't attend when it simply stresses them.

Parents refuse to support weddings financially, friends refuse to help plan... drama surrounds weddings.

But most of us have strong expectations in our heads that everyone will attend without excuse, so that's probably why it seems to never come up. Where cultural codes are strong, expectations don't like to get ruffled.

I would encourage you to look at the broader scope of what is happening in culture, where provocation to divide riles people up beyond their normal reactions. Refusing to go today -- it has different results than refusing to go ten years ago, or fifty years ago. Society is on edge and picking fights these days.

Deciding to be a part of debate takes on its own entity. The statement to oppose is as powerful as the life choice statement, even in relation to what God asks of you.

Your convictions are still the same, and your comfort levels, and right to decide. But how your decision impacts others has changed.

His friends will talk about the offense, feel more alienated, have more reasons to see Christianity as a socio-political competitor instead of a faith that heals and restores.

That would not necessarily be due to anything you have said or done, but from a long-term compilation of thoughts and events they have been through. It is not just about hurting feelings, but reinforcing distorted perceptions about Christianity.

Should you be taking this time to talk with the people in his wedding party, and explain yourself more clearly? Showing you are not trying to hate, but just stand with your personal convictions?

They are excited about the new freedoms to form legal unions, and the bruises are still fresh from trying to achieve this right. They see it differently than you -- not just politically, morally, religiously... but in a sense that they were under-represented and opposed for a long time. And still are.

It is good to stand one's ground on convictions, and to avoid supporting things you don't believe in. But the wedding will happen whether you're there or not, so support is only emotional/familial/friendship, not actual promotion and assistance in making it happen.

You might compare it with Solomon marrying foreign wives. There was a risk they would bring the worship of deities into Israel, right after the temple was built. And in fact they did -- asking Solomon to build temples on the hillsides.

King Solomon did not emotionally support, but he materially and politically made it happen. He provided the funding, probably the contractors, the land, the kingdom approval. He regretted his choice, but he actively implemented it.

Your decision has similar inner turmoil and standards of not wanting to promote something you believe to be detrimental to your brother -- but it differs in that he does not need your approval or material support to go ahead with it.

Notice how standing up for him would make a different statement than just attending. You might graciously decline being in the limelight, but then still quietly attend. You have already made your statement. It's up to you, and there are many implications to weigh in the coming months.

 

[harvester77]

[BIBLE][/BIBLE]

I have learnt that many Christian organizations seems to come up with inaccurate to distorted information on gay issues, including gays is caused by dysfunctions etc.

Most gays, in fact, do not come from a background of abuse.

I am sorry but what do you know? I have been in that lifestyle and still am attracted to the same sex but I can assure you most gay/lesbians I've come across have severe issues. Most not all but most and it all starts on childhood and abuse is a big one.. my cousin is gay with daddy issues two f his ex boyfriends been sexually abused by daddy, the countless colleagues I work with after a few drinks n the eve AFR work it all comes out. There is a huge percentage of gay abuse issues. It is not if God and I know this through my own conviction.