how can you be sure that the devil is evil and the bible is correct?

[juvenissun]

Numbers 31:17-18. After the war was over Moses instructed his warriers to kill all the captured men and children; and kill all the women who are not virgins. The women who are virgins you can keep them alive for yourselves. Here Moses claims God wants them to commit genoside and rape against the Midinites. Do you have a problem with this?

Ken

I have no problem with it.

If Israelite did not do this, then they can not even enter into the land of Canaan. In order to have a few hundreds thousand Israelites moved to the promised land, this doing is a must.

If you were Moses and there were no instruction from God, what would you do? I tell you what would you do: You do not know what to do. We look at this event as a history. And the history shows that Moses did exactly the right thing.

Besides, there are critical spiritual meanings imbedded in these killing events. Since you do not believe, I will save it here.

 

[juvenissun]

I know this question was asked for someone else but I would like to give my opinion; even though I doubt you would agree.

I believe men of war will worship a God of war; and men of peace will worship a God of peace. I believe Moses, Saul, and Joshua worshipped a God of war and they behaved accordingly. I believe Christians of today worship Jesus who is a God of peace.
The problem comes when today's Christians who worship the God of peace feel a need to justify the actions of those men who worshipped the God of war, and they find themselves justifying behavior that they know they would never tolorate from anyone else thus it makes them look hyprocryptical.

Ken

This is not a problem limited to Christians. It is a problem everywhere for all people at all time.

Christianity can minimize this problem the best. Because the God of peace and the God of war in Christianity are the same one God. So, Christian should be able to seek a balance between the two. Otherwise, the two gods will fight.

In Christianity, the God of war is in history and the God of peace is now. Killing at Moses time is necessary. But the Exodus is over and the same should not repeat ever.

 

[Ken-1122]

No I don't.

What if everyone is wrong but I am right? This situation happened numerous times everywhere all the time.

Particularly in the case of the Bible, there is NO outside source to confirm the truth in the Bible. Nothing.

For example, the Pop said a non-Christian still could be saved. I do not agree. This major outside source does not apply to me.

So I guess to answer the question we have been going back and fourth for about a half dozen pages is; there is no way to confirm the bible is correct, it is something that has to be taken on faith. Would you agree?

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

I have no problem with it.

Hitler would be proud.

If Israelite did not do this, then they can not even enter into the land of Canaan. In order to have a few hundreds thousand Israelites moved to the promised land, this doing is a must.

Are you telling me that your God did not have the ability to allow them to enter the promiced land without rape and genocide?

If you were Moses and there were no instruction from God, what would you do?

I would probably allow them the choice of joining my army/group according to our rules or spend the rest of their lives in captivity, or something like that. But what I would NOT do, I would not rape women and commit genocide against them. I am better than that! I suspect you are as well but you just don't wanna admit it.

Besides, there are critical spiritual meanings imbedded in these killing events. Since you do not believe, I will save it here.

Only a monster would see critical spiritual meaning imbedded in rape and genocide!

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

This is not a problem limited to Christians. It is a problem everywhere for all people at all time.

This is not a problem with atheists, only theists.

Christianity can minimize this problem the best. Because the God of peace and the God of war in Christianity are the same one God. So, Christian should be able to seek a balance between the two. Otherwise, the two gods will fight.

So how did they strike a balance between the atrocities of Moses and Saul vs what Jesus said in Matthew 5:44?

In Christianity, the God of war is in history and the God of peace is now. Killing at Moses time is necessary. But the Exodus is over and the same should not repeat ever.

So what is wrong today was not wrong yesterday? Sounds a little like "do as I say, not as I do" Humm....wasn't such senceless murder addressed in one of those 10 commandments during that time?

Ken

 

[juvenissun]

So I guess to answer the question we have been going back and fourth for about a half dozen pages is; there is no way to confirm the bible is correct, it is something that has to be taken on faith. Would you agree?

Ken

No.

More than 90% of content in the Bible is logical. There is little faith needed to understand that it is true.

 

[juvenissun]

Hitler would be proud.


Are you telling me that your God did not have the ability to allow them to enter the promiced land without rape and genocide?


I would probably allow them the choice of joining my army/group according to our rules or spend the rest of their lives in captivity, or something like that. But what I would NOT do, I would not rape women and commit genocide against them. I am better than that! I suspect you are as well but you just don't wanna admit it.

Only a monster would see critical spiritual meaning imbedded in rape and genocide!

Ken

Exactly. That was what Israelites did at the later time. They did not finish the killing.

The consequence? Jewish kingdom was eliminated.
------

Why does God let His people dispersed all over the world by their enemies? You probably would never understand.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

...
Why does God let His people dispersed all over the world by their enemies? You probably would never understand.

Surely you aren't claiming to know what god is thinking and to understand it.

 

[juvenissun]

This is not a problem with atheists, only theists.


So how did they strike a balance between the atrocities of Moses and Saul vs what Jesus said in Matthew 5:44?


So what is wrong today was not wrong yesterday? Sounds a little like "do as I say, not as I do" Humm....wasn't such senceless murder addressed in one of those 10 commandments during that time?

Ken

It was not wrong then and it is still not wrong today. The social/political environment changed, so the way to deal with the situation is also changed. It was killing before. Now is in peaceful ways (at least, in western nations). The nature of enemy and the battle are still the same. People in this world want to eliminate Christians, physically and spiritually.

The New Testament tells us what the nature of the battle is about today, and how to fight it.

 

[Ken-1122]

Exactly. That was what Israelites did at the later time. They did not finish the killing.

The consequence? Jewish kingdom was eliminated.
------

Why does God let His people dispersed all over the world by their enemies? You probably would never understand.

I said they should allow them to become a part of the Jewish nation, and abide by their rules or remain imprisoned for the rest of their lives. That is not what happened last time.

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

It was not wrong then and it is still not wrong today. The social/political environment changed, so the way to deal with the situation is also changed. It was killing before.

Not just killing, but brutal raping of innocent women simply because they were virgins. If you believe there are situations where such behavior is justified, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on that one.
BTW how do you justify such cruelty when one of your 10 commandments say "thou shalt not kill"???

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

No.

More than 90% of content in the Bible is logical. There is little faith needed to understand that it is true.

Logical! Are you kidding me??? Have you actually read some of the stories in the Bible?

K

 

[juvenissun]

Logical! Are you kidding me??? Have you actually read some of the stories in the Bible?

K

Yes, I think I have read them all. Yes, most of them are logical.
Want to give a shot?

 

[juvenissun]

Not just killing, but brutal raping of innocent women simply because they were virgins. If you believe there are situations where such behavior is justified, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on that one.
BTW how do you justify such cruelty when one of your 10 commandments say "thou shalt not kill"???

Ken

Very simple. The situation is different. One is civil law and one is martial law.

 

[juvenissun]

I said they should allow them to become a part of the Jewish nation, and abide by their rules or remain imprisoned for the rest of their lives. That is not what happened last time.

Ken

No. For Canaanites, they should not. They should all be killed. Everything burnt.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

I have no problem with it.

If Israelite did not do this, then they can not even enter into the land of Canaan. In order to have a few hundreds thousand Israelites moved to the promised land, this doing is a must.

If you were Moses and there were no instruction from God, what would you do? I tell you what would you do: You do not know what to do. We look at this event as a history. And the history shows that Moses did exactly the right thing.

Besides, there are critical spiritual meanings imbedded in these killing events. Since you do not believe, I will save it here.

Everything you said above indicates that you think 9/11 was a morally justified act.

Is this true? If not, why is it morally OK for one group to murder to achieve their goals, but not another (leaving "because God said so" out of it please)?

 

[Cearbhall]

No. For Canaanites, they should not. They should all be killed. Everything burnt.

Canaanites don't exist anymore. What are you talking about?

Very simple. The situation is different. One is civil law and one is martial law.

Ah, so you think that raping civilians is justified in times of war?

 

[juvenissun]

Everything you said above indicates that you think 9/11 was a morally justified act.

Is this true? If not, why is it morally OK for one group to murder to achieve their goals, but not another (leaving "because God said so" out of it please)?

You do not know what moral is.

Justified to whom? For what purpose?
If the 9/11 could put USA back to number 1 in the world for another 200 years, then it might be considered whether it is justified or not.

 

[juvenissun]

Canaanites don't exist anymore. What are you talking about?

Ah, so you think that raping civilians is justified in times of war?

I am talking about the history of Israel 4000 years ago.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

You do not know what moral is.

How can you say that? Judging by what you have posted in this thread, I am definitely more moral than you.

Justified to whom? For what purpose?
If the 9/11 could put USA back to number 1 in the world for another 200 years, then it might be considered whether it is justified or not.

It appears you judge the morality of an action on personal gain.