Strong Evidence for the Peleg state change

[Kylie]

A same state past based model is opinion. If you find that bad, come on over to the solid side.

No thanks, I prefer reality.

The pool, when compared to earth actually went through some changes, for example the ice age...mountain building...continental separation...etc.

But hey, we can use a pool for the example, if we stick to the recent past.

Utterly irrelevant. Can you answer my question or not?

A voice in your head told you this??

No, reality.

Spamming religious links actually didn't do anything like that.

That's brilliant. I provide the evidence you ask for and you dismiss it out of hand. Why then do you ask for it? Your debate form is atrocious.

No.

If something already had say, 2000 years worth of stuff now produced by decay 6000 years ago, your example is destroyed. You must know when the state started before you can talk or make claims intelligently. Until then...we wait.

You do realise that the production of daughter material is CONSTANT?

Right, now let's see exactly why you expect this thing to be 6000 years old!!???

Do you bother to read what I write? The decay has only been happening for 6000 years! If it can only decay in the present state and the present state has been around for 6000 years, then it has been decaying for only 6000 years! Even if it was around before then, it wasn't decaying until the present state got here.

Geez. Don't you even understand your own idea? Or do you keep it intentionally vague so you can twist it into whatever shape you require at the moment?

Forget contamination. I think we can say that IF this present state existed the whole time, we should indeed expect so much daughter material(s). So? Now the question is how long did it exist? You sure can't deduce that by looking at the daughter materials!! That is religion.

You are very ignorant of how radioactive decay works.

Observation: you are in denial.

No I am not. I just proved it by being willing to look at things from your point of view. Didn't you see? I looked at things from your point of view and they lead me to a contradiction.

Ratios do not matter. They do not show that decay happened, just that material now in decay exist! Big difference.

Ratios do matter, immensly so.

Yes it does. Decay existed for thousands of years ever since this state existed. How could decay play no part? --At least on our end.

But the only way we could get the ratios we see in REALITY to match with your different state past idea is for there to be contamination. There is just too much daughter material to be accounted for by only a few thousand years of radioactive decay. So where did the extra daughter material come from?

No. They are in a ratio because God created things in a pattern, and that pattern is now adjusted to this state!

How did this adjustment take place?

Doesn't matter. Unless you know, why talk?

So you don't know.

Once the atomic level is affected, that affects life processes. It could also affect light. Therefore the sky indeed could be different in color, but who knows? We did see a rainbow in heaven, in the bible, but the color was apparently quite emeraldish.

Again, you don't know.

There could have been some changes. Ever notice 'early man' seems somewhat different? Science agrees with me, that differences were the order of the day long ago! Add to that, the likelihood that man and beast could not fossilize or leave remains for the most part in the former state (we are not in the fossil record)--and we realize that the changes to man and beast in the record represent post split (the state change) changes!

Again, you don't know.

Shortened for brevity....

Shortened so you could avoid the one specific question I asked you to address. Nevermind, I'll ask it again, and again until you answer it.

You claim that the world had a different state some thousands of years in the past. I say it didn't. Now, let's say we could compare the two. Let's say we could look at a world that had a different past state (a world like the one you claim is real) and a world that did NOT have a different past state (a world like the one I claim is real). Imagine you could look at these two worlds. What differences would you see between them?

 

[AV1611VET]

Sarcasm doesn't win you any friends.

Would you like to compare your Friends List to mine?

 

[Golan]

Would you like to compare your Friends List to mine?

Your friends list reads more like a church register, they gather for confirmation of their beliefs not as friends.

If Christians have a 'personal relationship' with their God why do they seem to need constant reassurance?
You are now going to say that they don't need 'constant reassurance' they gather in holy fellowship,
which is the same thing 'constant reassurance', they doubt [for very good reasons] therefore they gather.

 

[Kylie]

Would you like to compare your Friends List to mine?

Oh yes, internet "Friends". Who you go to coffee with, etc. How many of them did you make through sarcasm?

 

[AV1611VET]

Your friends list reads more like a church register, they gather for confirmation of their beliefs not as friends.

... You obviously didn't check their faith icons, did you?

 

[AV1611VET]

Sarcasm doesn't win you any friends.

Would you like to compare your Friends List to mine?

How many of them did you make through sarcasm?

All it takes is one.

 

[dad]

No thanks, I prefer reality.

You need to do more than refer to it here. We are not talking reality by osmosis!

Utterly irrelevant. Can you answer my question or not?

Your pool is not a good analogy.

That's brilliant. I provide the evidence you ask for and you dismiss it out of hand. Why then do you ask for it? Your debate form is atrocious.

If it were 'brilliant' you could provide a few sentences or paragraphs from your spam link you think are relevant. Really. That is reality.

You do realise that the production of daughter material is CONSTANT?

Since when?? That is vague. Do you realize that? Your debate skills need special sharpening.

Do you bother to read what I write? The decay has only been happening for 6000 years! If it can only decay in the present state and the present state has been around for 6000 years, then it has been decaying for only 6000 years! Even if it was around before then, it wasn't decaying until the present state got here.

Doesn't matter when the present state got here. The important question is when creation happened!!!

Geez. Don't you even understand your own idea? Or do you keep it intentionally vague so you can twist it into whatever shape you require at the moment?

No one understands the intricate details of the laws of a former state. That should go without saying. Yet science doesn't so much as know one existed!!!!! The bible also gives many juicy details and clues, no less.

No I am not. I just proved it by being willing to look at things from your point of view. Didn't you see? I looked at things from your point of view and they lead me to a contradiction.

Only in comprehension inside your own head.

Ratios do matter, immensly so.

Says you. Why? Who cares what daughter stuff was or was not here at the start of the state??

But the only way we could get the ratios we see in REALITY to match with your different state past idea is for there to be contamination.

Absurd! Can you envision a man with 2 arms living in Noah's day? Why would I expect you to have 8 arms now?? If God set a pattern at creation, all we would look for is how different forces like the strong nuclear force or etc would affect cells and such..

There is just too much daughter material to be accounted for by only a few thousand years of radioactive decay. So where did the extra daughter material come from?

Totally wrong. That all depends on HOW you account for it! If we account for it by creation and whatever former state process the created materials were engaged in, as well as the present state contribution, all is well indeed! If all we do is harp on the present state, like some bug eyed fanatical science pulpit pounding professor, why then, you might have a problem.

How did this adjustment take place?

Well, how would anything take place once it is thrust into a world with different laws? Things adapt and adjust in a way God created them to be able to! Yes, there were apparently some major adjustments to life here for us. Possibly since food was harder (slower growth, and changed climate) to grow, many may have left farming operations, and I seem to recall something of that nature in Egyptian history!? Lifespans would suddenly be ridiculously short compared to what they were. Again, Egypt built tombs all over the place, as if death were something that was greatly front and center on their minds!!! Etc etc.

Look at eels. Some migrate out to near the continental ridge in the Atlantic, almost as if that was where they used to go before the rapid separation of continents! Migration patterns..etc etc etc etc. ALL the evidence points to a different state when one is tuned in to the truth.

Shortened so you could avoid the one specific question I asked you to address. Nevermind, I'll ask it again, and again until you answer it.

Never even read that far. Don't flatter yourself.

You claim that the world had a different state some thousands of years in the past. I say it didn't. Now, let's say we could compare the two. Let's say we could look at a world that had a different past state (a world like the one you claim is real) and a world that did NOT have a different past state (a world like the one I claim is real). Imagine you could look at these two worlds. What differences would you see between them?

Let's say spirits have laws too. Let's say spirits used to marry women, and basically live on earth at least a good deal of the time. How would the split have affected the laws in a way that changed that, to where they no longer are here directly?? Science has no clue. How can I live 1000 years? Science has no clue. How can trees grow in weeks? Science has no clue. How can land be (for lack of a better word) 'claylike' or different enough to allow water to come up from deep below the earth? How can mass NOT produce and retain great heat when it is moved rapidly?

There are many differences. Need more??



How sweet it is!

 

[dad]

Oh yes, internet "Friends". Who you go to coffee with, etc. How many of them did you make through sarcasm?

You look for dates here?

 

[Kylie]

You need to do more than refer to it here. We are not talking reality by osmosis!

This makes absolutely no sense.

Your pool is not a good analogy.

But my point is made and has not been refuted.

If it were 'brilliant' you could provide a few sentences or paragraphs from your spam link you think are relevant. Really. That is reality.

Ah yes. You have no interest in actual discussion, do you? Anything I provide you dismiss as spam.

Since when?? That is vague. Do you realize that? Your debate skills need special sharpening.

Since it happens in the present state. How is this vague. Your comprehension skills are shocking.

Doesn't matter when the present state got here. The important question is when creation happened!!!

You haven't been following what I've said at all, have you? I'm not surprised.

No one understands the intricate details of the laws of a former state. That should go without saying. Yet science doesn't so much as know one existed!!!!! The bible also gives many juicy details and clues, no less.

You can't even tell me even general stuff about it!

Only in comprehension inside your own head.

Again nonsensical.

Says you. Why? Who cares what daughter stuff was or was not here at the start of the state??

Do you even think about what you say? If the daughter material was here it would mean something very different than if it was not here. You don't seem to be able to see past your own little ideas.

Absurd! Can you envision a man with 2 arms living in Noah's day? Why would I expect you to have 8 arms now?? If God set a pattern at creation, all we would look for is how different forces like the strong nuclear force or etc would affect cells and such..

Noah didn't have two arms? How many did he have?

Totally wrong. That all depends on HOW you account for it! If we account for it by creation and whatever former state process the created materials were engaged in, as well as the present state contribution, all is well indeed! If all we do is harp on the present state, like some bug eyed fanatical science pulpit pounding professor, why then, you might have a problem.

So you invoke magic. "Oh yes, somehow the daughter material was formed in the past state. Don't know how, but it magically happened."

Well, how would anything take place once it is thrust into a world with different laws? Things adapt and adjust in a way God created them to be able to! Yes, there were apparently some major adjustments to life here for us. Possibly since food was harder (slower growth, and changed climate) to grow, many may have left farming operations, and I seem to recall something of that nature in Egyptian history!? Lifespans would suddenly be ridiculously short compared to what they were. Again, Egypt built tombs all over the place, as if death were something that was greatly front and center on their minds!!! Etc etc.

So, magic. You appeal to magic a lot, y'know.

Look at eels. Some migrate out to near the continental ridge in the Atlantic, almost as if that was where they used to go before the rapid separation of continents! Migration patterns..etc etc etc etc. ALL the evidence points to a different state when one is tuned in to the truth.

We'll add biology to the list of things you don't understand.

Never even read that far. Don't flatter yourself.

That's wonderful. You not only don't understand what you are replying to, you aren't even reading it! No wonder you get it so wrong!

Let's say spirits have laws too. Let's say spirits used to marry women, and basically live on earth at least a good deal of the time. How would the split have affected the laws in a way that changed that, to where they no longer are here directly?? Science has no clue. How can I live 1000 years? Science has no clue. How can trees grow in weeks? Science has no clue. How can land be (for lack of a better word) 'claylike' or different enough to allow water to come up from deep below the earth? How can mass NOT produce and retain great heat when it is moved rapidly?

There are many differences. Need more??

Speculation. Got any facts? No?

How sweet it is!

Yes, ignorance is bliss. You have demonstrated your ignorance of geology, physics and biology.

 

[Kylie]

You look for dates here?

I'm married. What do you think?

 

[dad]

I'm married. What do you think?

I would hope not then. Just wondering why you mentioned going for coffee etc with 'friends' from a forum. As you know, many are on different continents.

 

[Kylie]

I would hope not then. Just wondering why you mentioned going for coffee etc with 'friends' from a forum. As you know, many are on different continents.

Geez, you really don't read things, do you?

AV1611VET said some stuff about radioactive decay including asking why uranium is still around.

I asked him if he understood the concept of a half life (because that would have answered his question).

He sarcastically replied that he just made the whole thing up.

I said sarcasm wouldn't win him any friends.

He said his friends list was bigger than mine (hardly surprising since he's been here for years and I've been here only a few days).

I then said that internet friends are different to real life friends, because you socialize with them, and asked how many of those friends he got by being sarcastic towards them.

At which point you somehow jump to the conclusion that I'm looking to cheat on my husband. Seriously, what the...?

What's the point in discussing things with you when you don't even bother to follow the conversation?

 

[dad]

This makes absolutely no sense.

To simplify for you, if you want to claim some relationship to reality, you would need to post content, rather than just say the word reality, as if it helped you.

But my point is made and has not been refuted.

Not really sure what a pool is supposed to do to represent a different state. Try again.

Ah yes. You have no interest in actual discussion, do you? Anything I provide you dismiss as spam.

Unless you show us what in a link is your point (you have heard of a point?) then of course it is spam.

Since it happens in the present state. How is this vague. Your comprehension skills are shocking.

Of course decay happens in this state. Try to find some news.

You haven't been following what I've said at all, have you? I'm not surprised.

To follow anything related to the former state or this one we must include creation actually. Otherwise all we have is you making stuff up you could never begin to support.

You can't even tell me even general stuff about it!

I have often outlined many details of the former state actually. Some are here.

http://splitmerge.webs.com/split.pdf

If the daughter material was here it would mean something very different than if it was not here. You don't seem to be able to see past your own little ideas.

Tell us exactly what difference it would display if the daughter was here at the onset of this state?? I dare you.

Noah didn't have two arms? How many did he have?

Comprehension...work on that.

So you invoke magic. "Oh yes, somehow the daughter material was formed in the past state. Don't know how, but it magically happened."

Creation. One must invoke some beginning. Pardon me if I do not choose the universe in a speck fable, (big bang) that has no support at all.

So, magic. You appeal to magic a lot, y'know.

To a so called science that is so small, a lot of things must seem like magic. Others call it creation.

We'll add biology to the list of things you don't understand.

If you doubt the migration pattern of eels, try doing more than whining.

That's wonderful. You not only don't understand what you are replying to, you aren't even reading it! No wonder you get it so wrong!

If you noticed what I responded to was not what I did not read. I responded to the gibberish I did read.

Speculation. Got any facts? No?

It is not speculation that all ancient records including Scripture include spirits in a way that is unlike what we see today. That is elementary.

Yes, ignorance is bliss. You have demonstrated your ignorance of geology, physics and biology.

Actually, mentioning geology, physics and biology in no way helps your blather and lack of a cohesive case. They do not become your friends by mentioning their names.

 

[Kylie]

To simplify for you, if you want to claim some relationship to reality, you would need to post content, rather than just say the word reality, as if it helped you.

You first. All you;ve done is make claims. I at least am referring to things that exist in reality.

Not really sure what a pool is supposed to do to represent a different state. Try again.

it's an analogy to radioactive decay.

Unless you show us what in a link is your point (you have heard of a point?) then of course it is spam.

Try reading. Somehow I doubt you will, as you;ve already shown that you have no interest in reading what I provide, or even following the discussion.

Of course decay happens in this state. Try to find some news.

And since we see ratios all over the world that match what we'd expect from millions of years of decay, either the ratios all over the world are a result of millions of years of decay or they are the result of the biggest coincidence ever! Which is it to be, dad?

To follow anything related to the former state or this one we must include creation actually. Otherwise all we have is you making stuff up you could never begin to support.

No we don't need to actually.

I have often outlined many details of the former state actually. Some are here.

http://splitmerge.webs.com/split.pdf

Ah yes. The flood caused the state change, huh? How high did the flood waters reach, because the rocks on the moon show evidence of being billions of years old! Was the flood really that deep?

Tell us exactly what difference it would display if the daughter was here at the onset of this state?? I dare you.

If the daughter material was here at the outset of this state and was not caused by radioactive decay, we would find that rocks in the same layer would have differing ratios of daughter material to parent material.

Comprehension...work on that.

Maybe you should work at being comprehensible.

Creation. One must invoke some beginning. Pardon me if I do not choose the universe in a speck fable, (big bang) that has no support at all.

Actually, there is quite a bit of evidence that the universe had a beginning in a rapid expansion billions of years ago. If you are incapable of understanding the evidence for that, it's not my fault.

To a so called science that is so small, a lot of things must seem like magic. Others call it creation.

Well, if it's real, you should be able to provide evidence for it. Let's see you provide evidence for creation.

If you doubt the migration pattern of eels, try doing more than whining.

I don't doubt that eels migrate. It's your explanation of why that I find hard to believe.

If you noticed what I responded to was not what I did not read. I responded to the gibberish I did read.

Your comprehension problems are not up to me to solve. I don't hear anyone else complaining that my posts are gibberish, yet I see that claim being made a great deal about your posts.

It is not speculation that all ancient records including Scripture include spirits in a way that is unlike what we see today. That is elementary.

Please show me one historical record that indicates in a testable way that the laws of the universe were somehow different in the past.

Actually, mentioning geology, physics and biology in no way helps your blather and lack of a cohesive case. They do not become your friends by mentioning their names.

And once again you do not understand what I am saying.

I am saying that you have little or no knowledge about those subjects. If you want to discuss subjects that reference them, you would be wise to learn them.

 

[dad]

You first. All you;ve done is make claims. I at least am referring to things that exist in reality.

There you go citing the word reality again, as if you were acquainted!

it's an analogy to radioactive decay.

So if there was no decay, and then there was, where does a pool come in?

And since we see ratios all over the world that match what we'd expect from millions of years of decay,

Some people might think it matches a tooth fairy scenario...so? That says nothing, except that you use present state decay as the be all end all for all time.

either the ratios all over the world are a result of millions of years of decay or they are the result of the biggest coincidence ever! Which is it to be, dad?

No coincidence. A pattern, that assumed new duties in this state. One cannot say that the former state had decay, unless one first proves it. You have not done anything but believe real hard! You then turn around, and use circular reasoning to claim that because there was decay in the past, all daughter stuff must have come from that decay!

Ah yes. The flood caused the state change, huh?

No. The nature change was likely over a century later.

How high did the flood waters reach, because the rocks on the moon show evidence of being billions of years old! Was the flood really that deep?

Silly. The present state for man includes the moon.

If the daughter material was here at the outset of this state and was not caused by radioactive decay, we would find that rocks in the same layer would have differing ratios of daughter material to parent material.

How would we do that?? If the daughter was here already and engaged in whatever it used to do at the time, in the former state, where would you find some big pattern change in ratios of stuff??????????

Actually, there is quite a bit of evidence that the universe had a beginning in a rapid expansion billions of years ago.

No, actually there is not! You assume time is the same in all the universe, and laws, and always was. Redshift could not possibly represent what you claim unless time was all set to the earth clock!! That we do not know. Really. You have beliefs that have masqueraded too long as science. They are weak and indefensible.

Well, if it's real, you should be able to provide evidence for it. Let's see you provide evidence for creation.

Let's see you get some science capable of dealing with such evidence. Otherwise we will look to the evidence of ancient records--especially the tried and proven and time tested Scripture!

I don't doubt that eels migrate. It's your explanation of why that I find hard to believe.

Well, it fits and you do not have one that is worth a tin of beans!

Your comprehension problems are not up to me to solve. I don't hear anyone else complaining that my posts are gibberish, yet I see that claim being made a great deal about your posts.

Hey, you assumed anyone read the long posts!!!?

Please show me one historical record that indicates in a testable way that the laws of the universe were somehow different in the past.

Testable with...what??? Show us what you have to test with!!!!!?? Gong.

I am saying that you have little or no knowledge about those subjects. If you want to discuss subjects that reference them, you would be wise to learn them.

I can discuss those thing, but you would need to do more than chant their names and think you are sitting pretty with them.

 

[Kylie]

Another post from dad filled with unsupported claims, vague statements and other nonsense. Post something sensible and I will respond to it, dad. But you are blinded by your lack of knowledge.

 

[Subduction Zone]

dad, what KTS has been pointing out to you that if you have two independent nuclear clocks, say Rubidium/Strontium and Uranium/Lead, the only way that anyone has explained the resulting isotope ratios is if radiometric dating is correct. Simply appealing to an imaginary previous state is not good enough. You have to show a mechanism for getting the same date with two different independent clocks.

So how do you explain the accumulation of decay products? Be precise.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Another post from dad filled with unsupported claims, vague statements and other nonsense. Post something sensible and I will respond to it, dad. But you are blinded by your lack of knowledge.

The best he can do is to say "If I am wrong then the Bible is wrong, and the Bible can't be wrong". Circular reasoning at its worst.

 

[Kylie]

dad, what KTS has been pointing out to you that if you have two independent nuclear clocks, say Rubidium/Strontium and Uranium/Lead, the only way that anyone has explained the resulting isotope ratios is if radiometric dating is correct. Simply appealing to an imaginary previous state is not good enough. You have to show a mechanism for getting the same date with two different independent clocks.

So how do you explain the accumulation of decay products? Be precise.

Nice try, but he's not going to address it. All he can do is either admit that there has never been a different past state or admit that the ratios match entirely by coincidence. I've been trying to get him to choose one for a while now...

 

[dad]

Another post from dad filled with unsupported claims, vague statements and other nonsense. Post something sensible and I will respond to it, dad. But you are blinded by your lack of knowledge.

Stop wasting our time, Down Under.