Pope Francis writes about the Idolatory of money and devolving power from Rome...

S.ilvio

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I think we all agree that it was Communist Russia, not Western Capitalism, that the Blessed Mother of Fatima had us praying rosaries over so that they would be converted to Democracy and Capitalism. Capitalism may not be perfect but it is a hole lot better than the oppression of Communism.

Does it have to be one extreme or the other?

Of course it doesn't and in Europe our Social Democratic political systems are protective of the poorest in our communities while allowing enterprise to operate with common sense restrictions in place...
 
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StevenMerten

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Does it have to be one extreme or the other?

Of course it doesn't and in Europe our Social Democratic political systems are protective of the poorest in our communities while allowing enterprise to operate with common sense restrictions in place...

Hello S.ilvio,

Well UK high taxes did get the Beatles to move to America. This is good. Just kidding! There was a Beatles add running next my post.

Actually I think what you have in the UK is probably better than the US. I think that if Obama Care does not bankrupt us, we in the US are heading to what you have in the UK. I do believe in health care for all. Though I am not sure on Obama Care. I do believe in high minimum wage levels. We, in Washington State, have our minimum wage presently at $10.00 per hour and their is debate to take it higher. Capitalism is good, it just has to be harnessed properly. A mix like the UK would be better than what we have in the US. Democracy is still a must. Dictators and kings of the past do nothing for the poor.
 
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S.ilvio

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Hello S.ilvio,

Well UK high taxes did get the Beatles to move to America. This is good. Just kidding! There was a Beatles add running next my post.

Actually I think what you have in the UK is probably better than the US. I think that if Obama Care does not bankrupt us, we in the US are heading to what you have in the UK. I do believe in health care for all. Though I am not sure on Obama Care. I do believe in high minimum wage levels. We, in Washington State, have our minimum wage presently at $10.00 per hour and their is debate to take it higher. Capitalism is good, it just has to be harnessed properly. A mix like the UK would be better than what we have in the US. Democracy is still a must. Dictators and kings of the past do nothing for the poor.

I agree with a lot of what you say.

One small correction. I am in Ireland, not the UK (two separate countries)...:)
 
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StevenMerten

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I agree with a lot of what you say.

One small correction. I am in Ireland, not the UK (two separate countries)...:)

Oops! Sorry. I guess I do not know how the 'United Kingdom' works. Is the UK now just England? Sorry for my ignorance.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Hello S.ilvio,

Well UK high taxes did get the Beatles to move to America. This is good. Just kidding! There was a Beatles add running next my post.

Actually I think what you have in the UK is probably better than the US. I think that if Obama Care does not bankrupt us, we in the US are heading to what you have in the UK. I do believe in health care for all. Though I am not sure on Obama Care. I do believe in high minimum wage levels. We, in Washington State, have our minimum wage presently at $10.00 per hour and their is debate to take it higher. Capitalism is good, it just has to be harnessed properly. A mix like the UK would be better than what we have in the US. Democracy is still a must. Dictators and kings of the past do nothing for the poor.

While I do agree our system needs to be changed to address the needs of those who cannot get health insurance, I don't believe ObamaCare addresses anything regarding health care. Having insurance is one thing, having health care is something else. Obama's plan gives health insurance, in some quantity, to everyone, except about 20% of the population.
Regarding the bolded part, there were many, many good kings and other monarchs who did much to help their poor. Being a king or having a king, is not automatically a bad thing. Also, there are such things as benevolent dictators, which is what I believe Obama's style of governing is.
 
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S.ilvio

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Oops! Sorry. I guess I do not know how the 'United Kingdom' works. Is the UK now just England? Sorry for my ignorance.

As Chany said. The UK is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I am in The Republic of Ireland. A friendly but independent neighbour of the UK...:thumbsup:

No need to apologise...:)
 
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Michie

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"A Wake-Up Call": Expert Commentary on 'Evangelii Gaudium'


Pope Francis released his first Apostolic Exhortation today, Evangelii Gaudium - "The Joy of the Gospel". (Read 21 of the most important quotes here.) The document covers a wide range of topics, including economic injustice, new electronic media, the missionary nature the Church, the preeminence of Jesus in evangelization, how to give a good homily, and, of course, the importance of joy in evangelization.

We asked our Aleteia Experts to comment on the document, and here's what we got:


Paul Griffiths, Warren Professor of Catholic Theology at Duke University Divinity School

"The Pope's Apostolic Exhortation, Evangelii Gaudium, released on the Feast of Christ the King (24 November), is of a piece with the tone and substance of his papacy so far. It is warm, enthusiastic, and welcoming; it focuses on the central truth of Christianity, which is the redemptive gift of love to the world; it is urgent in its plea that Catholics become better representatives of that gift; and it is clear in its advocacy of the position that the deepest problems facing the church and the world today are poverty, inequality, and suffering. I hope that the Catholic Church in the US will take what he has written to heart. His words are inspiring and heartwarming to me: they help me to recall the meaning of my baptism."


Eugene Gan, Professor of Interactive Media, Communications, and Fine Art at Franciscan University of Steubenville

"Our Holy Father is not naive about the world around him. To the contrary, he is very aware of the nuances of communicating with others today. Multiple times in Evangelii Gaudium, he speaks of the influence of the media, from concern about negative media influences on the sacredness of marriage (para. 62), to encouraging that pastoral workers avoid "a sort of inferiority complex which leads them to relativize or conceal their Christian identity and convictions" (para. 79), to how the liturgical homily is a "distinctive genre", not to be treated as "a form of entertainment like those presented by the media" (para. 138).

"He is well aware that the message we preach can easily be taken out of context by the mainstream media, and as a result, the meaning of our messages is reduced to "secondary aspects". As important as these secondary aspects may be, they may not "convey the heart of Christ's message". Listen to the Holy Father's counsel: "We need to be realistic and not assume that our audience understands the full background to what we are saying, or is capable of relating what we say to the very heart of the Gospel which gives it meaning, beauty and attractiveness" (para. 34). Even from just these remarks, clearly, Our Holy Father cannot be classified as either "conservative" or "liberal" as some groups try to do. He is Catholic. Period. And he knows that it takes effort, skill, study, and above all love to communicate the Good News."


Msgr. Charles M. Mangan, Director of the Office of the Marian Apostolate Diocese of Sioux Falls, the Vicar for Consecrated Life, and the Canonical Adviser to the Most Reverend Paul J. Swain, D.D., the Bishop of Sioux Falls

"The insight of Pope Francis into the presence of Our Lady (284) is valuable. Mary's prayer with the disciples in anticipation of the Descent of the Holy Spirit 'made possible the missionary outburst which took place at Pentecost.' Then, the Holy Father boldly declares that without the Mother of God, "we could never truly understand the spirit of the new evangelization.


Allan Wright, Academic Dean of Evangelization for the Diocese of Paterson, NJ

Continued- "A Wake-Up Call": Expert Commentary on 'Evangelii Gaudium' - Aleteia
 
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Brooklyn Knight

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So, we doing this or what?

I got the tune:

Death or Glory - Motorhead - YouTube


I got the tools:


Gun+collection+3.jpg




I got the booze:


Merle.gif




Only thing missing is feasting on some decadent, opulent, bourgeoisie boar and repainting Capitol Hill with the blood of the liars and thieves who were supposed to be on our side...2 coats!
 
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Boidae

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"Every Baptized member of the Catholic faith is called to evangelize and is called to be a missionary disciple."

I cannot even evangelize my wife, and I am called to evangelize others? Talk about setting someone up for failure that doesn't need more failure in his life.
 
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Capitalism would be better if we had more co-ops and more employee-owned companies. Honestly, what I think a lot of liberals hate and react to the most is CORPORATE CEO-driven crooked empires in which CEO's run a company into the ground and then collect their $300,000,000 bonuses with a smile. I like to shop at WinCo foods grocery store in our town because it is not only affordable, it's EMPLOYEE-OWNED. Those folks have great pay and good benes with a super solid pension system.

A lot of people poo-poo'd Michael Moore's movie "Capitalism: A Love Story" because they think 'the opposite of capitalism is communism.' In reality, the movie discusses more employee-owned and operated ventures and is hopeful for that outcome, not communism or socialism. I'm not sure the Founding Fathers of the U.S. envisioned a system in which 1% owned 50% of the country and you had billionaires and power brokers using hedge funds and leveraging money and ripping off the banks and hiding money in the Caymans and using every trick in the book to dodge taxes while investing in China and helping a country that overvalues its currency against us. LOL

I think Capitalism just needs a lot of regulation and more employee-owned co ops and normal investments. But we also need less gimme-gimme welfare, food stamps, unemployment for infinity, and government assistance. It's out of control. SNAP and the other programs need to be SERIOUSLY curtailed.
 
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mark46

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Do you expect that we should accept your analysis over that of the pope?

Direct quotes from Evangelii Gaudium..:

On Capitalism.

Today everything comes under the laws of competition and the survival of the fittest, where the powerful feed upon the powerless. As a consequence, masses of people find themselves excluded and marginalised: without work, without possibilities, without any means of escape.

One would think that communism would solve all these problems. The funny thing is it is not communism which is sending out aid to foreign nations but capitalist nations. Communist North Korea has people starving to death and they will not even let capitalist nations come in to feed the people because it would be to humiliating for them.

As irrational as it may sound, it is not communism, it is not even really the Church, but capitalism which is the power house caring for the poor of the world.
 
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mark46

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I agree that we should have more wealth under the control of co-ops. I certainly agree with need for adequate regulation of much of the wealth producing activities in our society.

I don't share the implied idea that corporations cannot work for the good of all. In many companies, the employees are the primary shareholders, with considerable bonuses depending on corporate success. And yes, corporate executives should earn their bonuses through profits by the company. That is the case in many, many companies.

Capitalism would be better if we had more co-ops and more employee-owned companies. Honestly, what I think a lot of liberals hate and react to the most is CORPORATE CEO-driven crooked empires in which CEO's run a company into the ground and then collect their $300,000,000 bonuses with a smile. I like to shop at WinCo foods grocery store in our town because it is not only affordable, it's EMPLOYEE-OWNED. Those folks have great pay and good benes with a super solid pension system.

A lot of people poo-poo'd Michael Moore's movie "Capitalism: A Love Story" because they think 'the opposite of capitalism is communism.' In reality, the movie discusses more employee-owned and operated ventures and is hopeful for that outcome, not communism or socialism. I'm not sure the Founding Fathers of the U.S. envisioned a system in which 1% owned 50% of the country and you had billionaires and power brokers using hedge funds and leveraging money and ripping off the banks and hiding money in the Caymans and using every trick in the book to dodge taxes while investing in China and helping a country that overvalues its currency against us. LOL

I think Capitalism just needs a lot of regulation and more employee-owned co ops and normal investments. But we also need less gimme-gimme welfare, food stamps, unemployment for infinity, and government assistance. It's out of control. SNAP and the other programs need to be SERIOUSLY curtailed.
 
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Michie

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Sooner or later, Mark, before I die, you will agree with ALL of something I say on a post! ^_^ someday....someday...lol

I agree that we should have more wealth under the control of co-ops. I certainly agree with need for adequate regulation of much of the wealth producing activities in our society.

I don't share the implied idea that corporations cannot work for the good of all. In many companies, the employees are the primary shareholders, with considerable bonuses depending on corporate success. And yes, corporate executives should earn their bonuses through profits by the company. That is the case in many, many companies.
 
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AMDG

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Do you expect that we should accept your analysis over that of the pope?

And somehow you don't think that we individually have a responsibility to fulfill the command of Jesus to be charitable? You don't think that a co-op (where folks have a stake in making sure that the business is successful would not do just that? You really believe that it can only be done as a Godless Marxist?

Honestly I wonder when folks are going to realize that it's the INDIVIDUAL who acts in love toward another--not an economic system.
 
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Chany

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And somehow you don't think that we individually have a responsibility to fulfill the command of Jesus to be charitable? You don't think that a co-op (where folks have a stake in making sure that the business is successful would not do just that? You really believe that it can only be done as a Godless Marxist?

Honestly I wonder when folks are going to realize that it's the INDIVIDUAL who acts in love toward another--not an economic system.

No radical or liberal I know ever said that individual charity and aid are completely unnecessary and that government is the only way of aiding people. So, strawman.

When the entire international economic system is unjust, we have to change it.

Also, why is any economic system that does not support the economic well being of the common man of the world considered good?
 
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