What did Paul preach to the Corinthians?

[guuila]

Yes. Very good news.

God showed his love to us...

Romans 5:6-8
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

If you think that this only applies to those born after a certain date then we may as well throw the bible in the ditch.

I won't be throwing the bible in the ditch by the way.

I guess I'll ask again... what was Jesus hoping to accomplish when he suffered and died on the cross for pagans who lived hundreds of years before he was ever born?

 

[janxharris]

What Corinthians indicates is that Paul told the Corinthians that he had told the Corinthians that Christ died for their sins.

Yes, when they were unbelievers, Paul said 'Christ died for our sins.'

You are too far removed from the original context of the statement being reported within the statement to determine either clusivity, or, for that matter, what the direct quote version of Paul's statement was.

Sorry, but it was the gospel Paul preached. Paul could have made it quite clear that we are not to give non-believers the impression that Christ died for them.

The statement "Christ died for our sins" needs to be understood purely in its actual context, that of a letter written from Paul to Christians.

We have already established that it is what Paul had previously said to unbelievers and it is what Paul is preaching at the time he wrote the letter.

Paul also includes the fact that Jesus rose from the dead. Do we also tell unbelievers that Jesus didn't necessarily rise from the dead for anyone in the crowd?

What is your good news to non-believers Epiphoskei? 'Hope that you are one of the elect?'

 

[guuila]

I guess this was overlooked...

verse 11: Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

'this' refers to:

'Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried and rose again on the third day according to the scriptures.'

If I sent you a letter in the mail, and in it I said "Christ died for our sins..." why would you assume I'm talking about the entirety of the human race?

 

[janxharris]

When the high priest was going into the holy of holies to make atonement, when he wore a vest with the 12 tribes of israel on it, was he including the pagan nations and gentiles in his ritual?

No.

I guess you, too, are going to assert that no one outside of Israel in the OT had any chance of reconciliation with God?

Seriously?

 

[janxharris]

I guess I'll ask again... what was Jesus hoping to accomplish when he suffered and died on the cross for pagans who lived hundreds of years before he was ever born?

The same as for the sinner who was born a nano-second before the cut off point that griff decided on.

 

[Skala]

No.

I guess you, too, are going to assert that no one outside of Israel in the OT had any chance of reconciliation with God?

Seriously?

So you admit that atonement was made for only God's people.

That's nice.

We view Christ's atonement the same way.

 

[janxharris]

I guess this was overlooked...



If I sent you a letter in the mail, and in it I said "Christ died for our sins..." why would you assume I'm talking about the entirety of the human race?

I wouldn't.

Context.

 

[guuila]

The same as for the sinner who was born a nano-second before the cut off point that griff decided on.

So Jesus was hoping to save people who were already dead and in hell? Weird.

 

[guuila]

I wouldn't.

Context.

Paul was writing to a church in Corinth. Context.

 

[janxharris]

So you admit that atonement was made for only God's people.

That's nice.

We view Christ's atonement the same way.

Christ's atonement was for all men without except. That is good news Skala. It most certainly includes you.

 

[janxharris]

So Jesus was hoping to save people who were already dead and in hell? Weird.

Good job you weren't born before the watershed griff.

Is God love griff?

 

[Skala]

Christ's atonement was for all men without except. That is good news Skala. It most certainly includes you.

No it wasn't. It was for "his sheep", per what Christ himself said in John 10, several times.

Do you believe him?

 

[guuila]

Christ's atonement was for all men without except. That is good news Skala. It most certainly includes you.

So was it bad news that the OT atonement was only for God's people?

 

[guuila]

Good job you weren't born before the watershed griff.

Is God love griff?

I guess I'll ask again:

Jesus was hoping to save people who were already dead and in hell?

 

[janxharris]

No it wasn't. It was for "his sheep", per what Christ himself said in John 10, several times.

Do you believe him?

I believe what John 10 says. We have done that chapter to death.

Paul preached the good news - he told non-believers this good news - Christ died for our sins.

 

[Epiphoskei]

Yes, when they were unbelievers, Paul said 'Christ died for our sins.'



Sorry, but it was the gospel Paul preached. Paul could have made it quite clear that we are not to give non-believers the impression that Christ died for them.



We have already established that it is what Paul had previously said to unbelievers and it is what Paul is preaching at the time he wrote the letter.

We haven't established anything of the kind. You've been challenged on a half dozen priors necessary to make your case and you haven't even tried to back them up. You just declare them to be fact. This is Arminian methodology in a nutshell. Fill a bag full of priors which Arminianism will logically follow from. Smuggle it into debates. Construct Arminianism out of facts not in evidence. Refuse to allow the conversation to refocus around whether these priors are valid. This isn't persuasive.

Paul also includes the fact that Jesus rose from the dead. Do we also tell unbelievers that Jesus didn't necessarily rise from the dead for anyone in the crowd?

I fail to see where "Jesus rose from the dead" contains a pronoun with a disputable antecedent.

What is your good news to non-believers Epiphoskei? 'Hope that you are one of the elect?'

Christ has ransomed Israel. Have faith and you will be grafted in.

You will answer back to me that this isn't good news for those not gifted with the grace to stop hating God. I reply that a man's hatred of God is not my problem, not God's problem, and not the Gospel's problem. It's his problem. Exclusively.

 

[janxharris]

I guess I'll ask again:

Jesus was hoping to save people who were already dead and in hell?

They were provided the same access to salvation that you have, during their life. You obviously don't agree.

I asked you if God is love. Yes or no?

 

[Epiphoskei]

How can a person who was not saved retroactively be able to be saved?

 

[Hammster]

God is love.

 

[guuila]

They were provided the same access to salvation that you have, during their life. You obviously don't agree.

How were the Amorites given access to salvation when they were left in darkness and ignorance, having absolutely no idea about the coming messiah?

I asked you if God is love. Yes or no?

Yes. And if God never sent Jesus, he'd still be love. Agree?