What did Paul preach to the Corinthians?

[sdowney717]

Janx, the apostles all preached salvation in His name throughout the earth not distinguishing one from another as elect or not.

28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.”

29 And Paul said, “I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains.”

The explanation of our salvation though was written by them to the believers as to why things are the way they are. As Jesus said you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.

So in application, all can hear the message and we should desire the salvation of all men. And knowing the truth about how and why God saves us is liberating, at least for me personally.

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”[j] 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:

“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”[k]

So the explanation and teaching of Jesus and His apostles is in explaining, revealing the secrets of the kingdom.

 

[janxharris]

Neither, really. I'm just stating a fact.

Somebody else shouts out:

Is it true that some in this crowd that you preach to may be without access to the very gospel you speak of? True or false mister preacher?

I would guess that after you respond there would be a good chance that the crowd would be completely nonplussed, since they know that 'gospel' means 'good news'.

?

 

[OzSpen]

I'm not making an argument for limited atonement based on this passage. So you post is a red herring. And your list of verses are taken out of context.

It is not a red herring, which means I'm trying to change the topic to avoid answering what you asked. I was replying to your statement, 'Later I could say that I preached that Christ died for our sins. And it would be true'. My question was one of clarification. When you stated, 'Christ died for our sins', did you mean that Christ only died for the sins of believers (limited atonement) or that Christ dies for the sins of all people (unlimited atonement)? Mine was a genuine question: When you say 'our sins' are you meaning Christ's death is only for the believers of whom the Corinthians are representative, or are you telling the person, 'Christ died for the sins of all people who are sinners'.

As for 'your list of verses are taken out of context', that's your assertion that proves nothing.

 

[Hammster]

Somebody else shouts out:

Is it true that some in this crowd that you preach to may be without access to the very gospel you speak of? True or false mister preacher?

I would guess that after you respond there would be a good chance that the crowd would be completely nonplussed, since they know that 'gospel' means 'good news'.

?

Define what you mean by access.

 

[OzSpen]

Janx, the apostles all preached salvation in His name throughout the earth not distinguishing one from another as elect or not.

The explanation of our salvation though was written by them to the believers as to why things are the way they are. As Jesus said you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.

So in application, all can hear the message and we should desire the salvation of all men. And knowing the truth about how and why God saves us is liberating, at least for me personally.

So the explanation and teaching of Jesus and His apostles is in explaining, revealing the secrets of the kingdom.

I agree that we should desire the salvation of all people. In fact that is exactly what the Scriptures affirm: 'not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance' (2 Pt 3:9 ESV).

However, I do not find it truthful to say, 'Christ died for our sins' to sinners and mean (based on one's theology), 'Christ did not die for all the sins in the world and you might not be included in this application of salvation. You may be predestined to damnation'.

 

[Hammster]

It is not a red herring, which means I'm trying to change the topic to avoid answering what you asked. I was replying to your statement, 'Later I could say that I preached that Christ died for our sins. And it would be true'. My question was one of clarification. When you stated, 'Christ died for our sins', did you mean that Christ only died for the sins of believers (limited atonement) or that Christ dies for the sins of all people (unlimited atonement)? Mine was a genuine question: When you say 'our sins' are you meaning Christ's death is only for the believers of whom the Corinthians are representative, or are you telling the person, 'Christ died for the sins of all people who are sinners'.

i wasn't discussing limited or unlimited atonement. So yes, red herring.

As for 'your list of verses are taken out of context', that's your assertion that proves nothing.

The list of verses are your assertion, and they prove nothing.

 

[Hammster]

I agree that we should desire the salvation of all people. In fact that is exactly what the Scriptures affirm: 'not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance' (2 Pt 3:9 ESV).

However, I do not find it truthful to say, 'Christ died for our sins' to sinners and mean (based on one's theology), 'Christ did not die for all the sins in the world and you might not be included in this application of salvation. You may be predestined to damnation'.

I'll pull a Janx on you. Someone in the crowd asks "What does it mean that Christ died for my sins? Does that mean He took the punishment?"

 

[OzSpen]

Neither, really. I'm just stating a fact.

That's an avoidance response. Red herring.

 

[OzSpen]

I'll pull a Janx on you. Someone in the crowd asks "What does it mean that Christ died for my sins? Does that mean He took the punishment?"

Good try. I'm not Janx. Try that one on him.

 

[OzSpen]

i wasn't discussing limited or unlimited atonement. So yes, red herring.

The list of verses are your assertion, and they prove nothing.

I was responding to your statement, 'Christ died for our sins'. That does include an understanding of limited or unlimited atonement. No red herring by me.

The list of verses I provided have been discussed over and over on this forum. They are not my assertion. They are the assertions of Scripture.

 

[OzSpen]

Define what you mean by access.

If you went to dictionary.com, you'd know what 'accesshttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/access?s=t' means in theology in the English language, 'approach to God through Jesus Christ'. It states:

ac·cess

[ak-ses] Show IPA
noun 1. the ability, right, or permission to approach, enter, speak with, or use; admittance: They have access to the files.
2. the state or quality of being approachable: The house was difficult of access.
3. a way or means of approach: The only access to the house was a rough dirt road.
4. Theology . approach to God through Jesus Christ.
5.an attack or onset, as of a disease.
​

 

[Hammster]

That's an avoidance response. Red herring.

I wasn't affirming or denying limited atonement with that statement. I'm pretty sure I know, since I'm the one that made the statement.

 

[OzSpen]

Read it again.

That's like a non-answer.:o

 

[Hammster]

Good try. I'm not Janx. Try that one on him.

According to you, that's avoiding. So, by your definition it's a red herring.

 

[OzSpen]

I wasn't affirming or denying limited atonement with that statement. I'm pretty sure I know, since I'm the one that made the statement.

However, when your communication was not clear to me, I asked for clarification. Isn't that an OK thing to do on this forum?

 

[OzSpen]

According to you, that's avoiding. So, by your definition it's a red herring.

Not at all! I seem to recognise your tricks on me.

 

[Hammster]

I was responding to your statement, 'Christ died for our sins'. That does include an understanding of limited or unlimited atonement. No red herring by me.

The list of verses I provided have been discussed over and over on this forum. They are not my assertion. They are the assertions of Scripture.

My statement had nothing to do with limited or unlimited atonement. It was a statement to believers. It could be one that I make to you. So since I have repeatedly told you that it has nothing to do with limited or unlimited atonement, then any further comments directed to me in that manner will be red herrings.

And your use of those verses has been refuted every time.

 

[Hammster]

If you went to dictionary.com, you'd know what 'accesshttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/access?s=t' means in theology in the English language, 'approach to God through Jesus Christ'. It states:

ac·cess

[ak-ses] Show IPA
noun 1. the ability, right, or permission to approach, enter, speak with, or use; admittance: They have access to the files.
2. the state or quality of being approachable: The house was difficult of access.
3. a way or means of approach: The only access to the house was a rough dirt road.
4. Theology . approach to God through Jesus Christ.
5.an attack or onset, as of a disease.
​

Thanks Janx.

Oh...wait.

 

[Hammster]

That's like a non-answer.:o

You incorrectly quoted me. So it was appropriate.

 

[Hammster]

Not at all! I seem to recognise your tricks on me.

Another red herring, by your definition.