Catholicism vs Protestant-does it even matter?

[markme]

Catholicism vs Protestant-does it even matter?


ok so i'm a college student from a Hindu background going through RCIA, and i keep hearing things from Protestants saying that Catholics are doing it wrong, and Catholics saying that Protestants are doing it wrong.

my question is, does it really matter? like i know somewhere in the Bible,

Jesus tells a guy that you'll get in heaven if you love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.

so as long as you're doing that, does following a different denomination make what you're doing incorrect?

 

[Cappadocious]

so as long as you're doing that, does following a different denomination make what you're doing incorrect?

Jesus later expounds on what it means to love God, and neighbor as oneself:

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

The bolded part is critical. Because we believe Jesus, being the eternal Word of God himself, humbled himself to become human for us. A human being who had to die the most dishonorable and alienating death possible for the tribe he was born into. A death of complete and total destitution.

This act of humble love is the ultimate expression of God's love on earth; on the Cross, Jesus says "it is completed", meaning the mighty works of God culminated in this act. So if we want to love one another as Jesus loved us, that is what it will look like.

Why bring all this up? Because there are certain sects, though they identify themselves as Christian, which believe things that undermine Christ's humble act of love. They don't believe he *really* did it. They deny Christ really humbled himself to become human, by claiming one of the following:

• Christ only appeared to be human; it was merely a vision.
• Christ was human, but he was really a lesser god of some sort.
• Christ was 'human', but he didn't have a human soul.
• God merely united himself to a human named Jesus, he didn't really become human.
• Christ was 'human', but he wasn't human exactly the same as we are.
• Christ was 'human', but the properties of his humanity were suppressed.
• Christ was 'human', but he didn't have a human will.
• Christ was 'human', but he wasn't human enough to be able to take a photo or paint a picture of him.
• Or, something else entirely.

Why do they do this? Some if it seems like really small details. Why take the time? Why would they complicate the simple truth of Christ?

Because God becoming human for us is too scandalous and too destructive of people's pre-conceived beliefs. For the past 1900+ years, people have tried to explain it away: Emperors, false prophets, philosophers, demagogues, warlords... legions of people have found this belief too traumatic to their own worldview to be able to accept it. And so, they tried to destroy it.

A denomination that does this is changing what it means to love as Jesus loved, because they are changing how we understand the degree to which Jesus loved us. Their Jesus wasn't humble; he was just play-acting as a human, he didn't really become one.

So, you see, what a denomination believes is actually rather important.

 

[thecolorsblend]

ok so i'm a college student from a Hindu background going through RCIA, and i keep hearing things from Protestants saying that Catholics are doing it wrong, and Catholics saying that Protestants are doing it wrong.

my question is, does it really matter? like i know somewhere in the Bible,

Jesus tells a guy that you'll get in heaven if you love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.

so as long as you're doing that, does following a different denomination make what you're doing incorrect?

To me what matters is beyond "correct" or "incorrect" and more about "complete" or "incomplete".

I was born, raised in and even spent the majority of my adult life in evangelical denominations. What I eventually had to accept was that even in their finest hour, the most you can say about the Protestants, evangelicals and all the rest is that they have a hit and miss, inconsistent and incomplete view of everything from the sacraments to the scriptures.

It's one thing to know that Our Lord died on the cross for our sins or to know a few Biblical catchphrases but the fullness of the word, salvation and the sacraments can only be truly appreciated in an apostolic denomination in my opinion.

 

[Yardstick]

Jesus later expounds on what it means to love God, and neighbor as oneself:

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

The bolded part is critical. Because we believe Jesus, being the eternal Word of God himself, humbled himself to become human for us. A human being who had to die the most dishonorable and alienating death possible for the tribe he was born into. A death of complete and total destitution.

This act of humble love is the ultimate expression of God's love on earth; on the Cross, Jesus says "it is completed", meaning the mighty works of God culminated in this act. So if we want to love one another as Jesus loved us, that is what it will look like.

Why bring all this up? Because there are certain sects, though they identify themselves as Christian, which believe things that undermine Christ's humble act of love. They don't believe he *really* did it. They deny Christ really humbled himself to become human, by claiming one of the following:

• Christ only appeared to be human; it was merely a vision.
• Christ was human, but he was really a lesser god of some sort.
• Christ was 'human', but he didn't have a human soul.
• God merely united himself to a human named Jesus, he didn't really become human.
• Christ was 'human', but he wasn't human exactly the same as we are.
• Christ was 'human', but the properties of his humanity were suppressed.
• Christ was 'human', but he didn't have a human will.
• Christ was 'human', but he wasn't human enough to be able to take a photo or paint a picture of him.
• Or, something else entirely.

Why do they do this? Some if it seems like really small details. Why take the time? Why would they complicate the simple truth of Christ?

Because God becoming human for us is too scandalous and too destructive of people's pre-conceived beliefs. For the past 1900+ years, people have tried to explain it away: Emperors, false prophets, philosophers, demagogues, warlords... legions of people have found this belief too traumatic to their own worldview to be able to accept it. And so, they tried to destroy it.

A denomination that does this is changing what it means to love as Jesus loved, because they are changing how we understand the degree to which Jesus loved us. Their Jesus wasn't humble; he was just play-acting as a human, he didn't really become one.

So, you see, what a denomination believes is actually rather important.

I agree, but if a denomination claims any of the beliefs on your list then they can no longer be identified as a Christian denomination and so don't really fit into OP's question. If the denomination is indeed a Christian one, meaning they affirm the creeds, should it matter to OP which denomination they join?

 

[Cappadocious]

I agree, but if a denomination claims any of the beliefs on your list then they can no longer be identified as a Christian denomination and so don't really fit into OP's question. If the denomination is indeed a Christian one, meaning they affirm the creeds, should it matter to OP which denomination they join?

My post was meant to be a starting point, a demonstration that denomination *does* matter. Because large chunks of Protestantism do claim beliefs on my list.

Those groups are still commonly referred to as Christian denominations, whether we like it or not, or believe it or not. Some Sproulian calvinist emergent sect that affirms Extra Calvinisticum is still gonna be called Christian in common parlance.

 

[Albion]

Those groups are still commonly referred to as Christian denominations, whether we like it or not, or believe it or not. Some Sproulian calvinist emergent sect that affirms Extra Calvinisticum is still gonna be called Christian in common parlance.

...and why wouldn't it be called Christian? Because although it believes in Christ, it doesn't rank with some other denomination? No. And you didn't say that.

Your point, I take it, is that these unnamed churches don't know who the one they acclaim actually is...and that is sufficient for us to say that they aren't actually Christian.

That's possible but here's my problem:

There are hardly any such churches, so it's pretty much a hypothetical issue unless we're talking about a few churches that are almost universally termed "cults" for being so much on the fringe.

 

[simonpeter]

Catholicism vs Protestant-does it even matter?


ok so i'm a college student from a Hindu background going through RCIA, and i keep hearing things from Protestants saying that Catholics are doing it wrong, and Catholics saying that Protestants are doing it wrong.

my question is, does it really matter? like i know somewhere in the Bible,

Jesus tells a guy that you'll get in heaven if you love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.

so as long as you're doing that, does following a different denomination make what you're doing incorrect?

It is important because, for instance, the RCC has a powerful 2000 years of history behind it; also, theologically, it is sound. Contrast this with Protestant denominations that spring up with their rock bands, prosperity stuff, and all kinds of weird theology to appeal to a wider audience.

 

[Albion]

It is important because, for instance, the RCC has a powerful 2000 years of history behind it

Well, arguably, so does almost every other denomination.

also, theologically, it is sound. Contrast this with Protestant denominations that spring up with their rock bands, prosperity stuff, and all kinds of weird theology to appeal to a wider audience.

I dunno. Catholicism offers apparitions, communion wafers bleeding before the worshippers, indulgences that get you out of Purgatory, and an endless series of sacred locations for the edification of tourists with money to drop into the slot.

No, I don't think that's much of an improvement (and you do know, I hope, that you are describing only a few of many Protestant churches in what you said above).

 

[Cappadocious]

Your point, I take it, is that these unnamed churches don't know who the one they acclaim actually is...and that is sufficient for us to say that they aren't actually Christian.

Think you replied to the wrong person.

 

[Albion]

Think you replied to the wrong person.

My apologies if that's so. It still looks--upon a rereading of those posts--that you and Yardstick were "thinking aloud" on this matter in a way that made the two views look similar. But still, it does seem as though quoting you in my reply wasn't helpful. Thanks for calling this to my attention.

 

[Sancti Apostoli]

They can be a Christian denomination, but not a Christian Church. Specific beliefs and practices that follow from those beliefs are essential to the very definition of the word, "Church." The list of beliefs cited certainly removes many denominations and ecclesiastical communities from inclusion, but so do failure to accept the Sacraments, especially Baptism and celbration of the Eucharist. Many groups claiming to be churches simply, by definition, are not.

 

[Willie T]

Catholicism vs Protestant-does it even matter?


ok so i'm a college student from a Hindu background going through RCIA, and i keep hearing things from Protestants saying that Catholics are doing it wrong, and Catholics saying that Protestants are doing it wrong.

my question is, does it really matter? like i know somewhere in the Bible,

Jesus tells a guy that you'll get in heaven if you love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.

so as long as you're doing that, does following a different denomination make what you're doing incorrect?

In a word, "No". Jesus didn't endorse any religion.

 

[andy b]

im a catholic and it doesn't matter give me a good man who is a Muslim or jew or protestant over a bad man who is a catholic....thats the trouble with our world we judge men by there identity or label rather than there deeds and that is totaly against what jesus preached im at the stage in my life where my main concern over the people i meet is if they are decent human beings

 

[thecolorsblend]

im a catholic and it doesn't matter give me a good man who is a Muslim or jew or protestant over a bad man who is a catholic....thats the trouble with our world we judge men by there identity or label rather than there deeds and that is totaly against what jesus preached im at the stage in my life where my main concern over the people i meet is if they are decent human beings

Wow, really? I thought the Lord wanted everyone to know, believe in and depend on Him for salvation for their sins. In fact, I had the crazy idea that He even went so far as to call that a prerequisite for entering God's kingdom. Now, maybe I misunderstood something along the way, but I swear to think I read that somewhere.

 

[andy b]

Wow, really? I thought the Lord wanted everyone to know, believe in and depend on Him for salvation for their sins. In fact, I had the crazy idea that He even went so far as to call that a prerequisite for entering God's kingdom. Now, maybe I misunderstood something along the way, but I swear to think I read that somewhere.

im sick of people who claim to be religios and spout chapter and verse of the bible or quaran or whatever but are terrible human beings give me a moderate religious person who does good that a fire and brimstone one who does bad i know who i think who will get into heaven.If you think proclaiming god gets a free pass think again

 

[thecolorsblend]

im sick of people who claim to be religios and spout chapter and verse of the bible or quaran or whatever but are terrible human beings give me a moderate religious person who does good that a fire and brimstone one who does bad i know who i think who will get into heaven.If you think proclaiming god gets a free pass think again

The message of Christ is no matter how big a stinker you are, forgiveness is available to those who want it. If you think it's about "being a good person", you've missed the entire point of Christianity.

 

[HeraldOfTheHolyOne]

Yes, the differences between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism are enormous. Roman Catholicism teaches a heretical soteriology. It denies that Christ is sacrificed once for all (teaching that Christ is resacrificed at the Mass), makes works necessary for maintaining salvation (and thus works are necessary for salvation, whereas the Bible explicitly denies this [James 2 does not teach contrary to sola fide, it is identifying two different kinds of faith and the evidences for them]), and drags the authority of Scripture down to the level of the authority of human tradition. Roman Catholicism has added many unbiblical doctrines and has proclaimed them as "apostolic tradition", such as the treasury of merits, purgatory, papal infallibility, the immaculate conception & assumption of Mary, and Mary as co-redeemer to name a few.

Of course, this is not to say that many Protestant denominations aren't full of false doctrine as well - they are. But I think that certain Protestant denominations are far closer to the Bible's teaching.

 

[seashale76]

Coming to a forum that isn't part of your belief system and telling those people that you believe their faith is wrong in every way isn't what this forum is for. I don't come to your forum and tell you that your faith is wrong. Perhaps I should.

 

[Albion]

Yes, the differences between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism are enormous. Roman Catholicism teaches a heretical soteriology. It denies that Christ is sacrificed once for all (teaching that Christ is resacrificed at the Mass), makes works necessary for maintaining salvation (and thus works are necessary for salvation, whereas the Bible explicitly denies this [James 2 does not teach contrary to sola fide, it is identifying two different kinds of faith and the evidences for them]), and drags the authority of Scripture down to the level of the authority of human tradition. Roman Catholicism has added many unbiblical doctrines and has proclaimed them as "apostolic tradition", such as the treasury of merits, purgatory, papal infallibility, the immaculate conception & assumption of Mary, and Mary as co-redeemer to name a few.

Of course, this is not to say that many Protestant denominations aren't full of false doctrine as well - they are. But I think that certain Protestant denominations are far closer to the Bible's teaching.

Yes, it's too much to say "it doesn't matter." It always matters if one holds some false beliefs as opposed to believing the truth. Truth is important.

I would agree that it doesn't matter to one's standing with God. But that's different from saying "it doesn't matter" (which church one belongs to).

And there may be more to it than that. Some churches, as you noted, teach not only erroneous doctrines but, by their discipline, they tyrannize the people, keep them in fear, divert them from the study of God's word, etc., all of which can be harmful to their spiritual wellbeing, even if God still isn't in the business of rewarding us merely on account of which denomination we belong to.

 

[HeraldOfTheHolyOne]

Coming to a forum that isn't part of your belief system and telling those people that you believe their faith is wrong in every way isn't what this forum is for. I don't come to your forum and tell you that your faith is wrong. Perhaps I should.

I didn't say Roman Catholicism was wrong in every way that said, I can assent that it is best that the OP and others take what I said with a grain of salt and examine the Scriptures for themselves on the matter. I do apologize if my post was misplaced.