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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Richard Dawkins Explains Why He Doesn't Debate Young Earth Creationists
- Thread starter Dusky Mouse
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EnemyOfReason
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Deism was sort of a standard int he Enlightenment Era actually, it died off quick sadly and left mankind with the Evangelical Protestants sadly.
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Dawkins appears to be clever but in reality knows nothing of what he is talking about concerning religion. I agree that Young Earth creationism is rather dumb, but most Christians know that anyway.
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Eudaimonist
I believe in life before death!
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Archaeopteryx
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Vegetation did preceed the sun and stars, a little something called magic
That's what it always seems to come down to.
When you don't know, mask your ignorance with the supernatural and pretend that you have knowledge.
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I had a discussion with someone recently who was making the tired old claim that "America is a Christian Nation", with a spin I'd not encountered before... the declaration of independence was dated with "year of our lord", thus implying belief in Jesus Christ, thus the "under God" bit was obviously a reference to the Trinity, thus "Christian nation". I agreed that use of a culture wide dating convention certainly made a compelling argument as to the religious beliefs of the founders, just as, clearly, their use of the names of the week Tuesday through to Friday showed that during the work week, the founding fathers were followers of Germano-Norse paganism, and Graeco-Roman on Saturdays. Strangely, the person I was having this discussion with has not yet replied. I assume he can't operate a computer because he's drunk on mead, as the traditional observance of Thor's Day requires.
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KWCrazy
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He BELIEVED, you mean. Not being a god himself and not having witnessed them, he could only offer his opinion. He DID believe in God as the Creator. The Declaration of Independence posits that all human rights come from God; THEIR CREATOR. Like most of the founders, religious freedom was very important; including to freedom to reject any or all of it. His personal concept of God was his own. On his own memorial are his words, "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man." He believed in God. He was not, however, a Christian. He did not believe that Jesus was his savior, and apparently rejected the resurrection as well.
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Davian
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Same as you. Opinion.
He believed in "a" god.
"There are a couple of flaws in this argument. For one thing, the Declaration of Independence is not a legal document for this nation. What this means is that it has no authority over our laws, our lawmakers, or ourselves. It cannot be cited as precedent or as being binding in a courtroom. The purpose of the Declaration of Independence was to make a moral case for dissolving the legal ties between the colonies and Great Britain; once that goal was achieved, the official role of the Declaration was finished.
That leaves open, however, the possibility that the document expressed the will of the same people who wrote the Constitution thus, it provides knowledge about their intent as to what sort of government we should have. Leaving aside for the moment whether or not that intention should bind us, there are still serious flaws to consider. First, religion itself is never mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. This makes it difficult to argue that any particular religious principles should guide our current government.
Second, what little is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence is only barely compatible with Christianity, the religion most people have in mind when making the above argument. The Declaration refers to Natures God, Creator, and Divine Providence. These are all terms used in the sort of deism which was common among many of those responsible for the American Revolution as well as the philosophers upon whom they relied for support. Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence, was himself a deist who was opposed to many traditional Christian doctrines, in particular beliefs about the supernatural."
Declaration of Independence & Christianity Myth: Does the Declaration of Independence Support Christianity?
So he did believe in a different god than you do.
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EnemyOfReason
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Jefferson was a Deist and a famous one at that.
I would not compare the god of Deism to Christ nor Yahweh at all as it is nothing a like.
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Davian
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No.
I don't know. Why don't we list the similarities and see how they compare. I'll start the list for you:
- Both go by the name of "God"
- No evidence for their existence other than as characters in books
- ______________________________________________
- ______________________________________________
- ______________________________________________
- ______________________________________________
- ______________________________________________
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KWCrazy
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Well, so far 50% of your list is false.
Jesus said that He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. Until His followers accepted His teaching as a fulfillment of the Scriptures and recognized Him as the song of God, there was no such thing as Christianity. Jesus worshiped in the same temples as the Jewish leaders. I'm really amazed that you don't know this. Jesus celebrated the Passover with His disciples. One would think that would be a clue. Frankly, I really don't think you know much about this subject.
As far as there being no evidence of God, your statement is quite simply a bald faced lie. There is an abundance of evidence for God. There is no physical proof because man is saved through grace. If I could prove to you that God was real, then you would have knowledge; not faith. You would be condemned. I have issued several challenges for those who would want to actually find some believable evidence, but I've found that rather than accepting my challenges I get only more gibberish from the mouths of the cowardly. It's easy to say that God isn't real. It's a scary thing to find out the truth for yourself.
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