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Do you believe we have a sinful nature?
- Thread starter Messy
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HannibalFlavius
Well-Known Member
I know that I do.
I find that I commit the worst of sins just after I had done a really good deed.
I find that I commit the worst of sins just after I had done a really good deed.
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freezerman2000
Living and dying in 3/4 time
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Is there any evidence that we become sinless after Salvation?
We all sin,we are just forgiven of those sins.
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A
aniello
Guest
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
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Near
In Christ we rise
There is evidence.
Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentileswhen we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. (I Peter 4:1-3)
Also, you didnt address the main topic.
What happens is, people blame sins on some "fake" sin nature, saying, "we cant stop sinning", and by doing so shift at least some blame to Adam, God, or the body, and not their own choices.
Once you realize it's been you this whole time sinning, and not anything making you sin, or preventing you from being holy... That's when you know "you" sinned, and the full guilt is on you, and then you can have a true confession, and repentance.
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HannibalFlavius
Well-Known Member
My nature is sin.
There is no need to explain anything, I just can't imagine a person who does not want to sin, it's strange.
I want to sin all day, every day.
If sinning were the goal, I would be king of the world.
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Near
In Christ we rise
Does this mean anything to you?
Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (I John 3:4-9 NKJV)
May I also point out, your "nature" doesnt make you sin. You choose to. That's how bad of a person you have decided to be, whatever depths of depravity you are in.
There is hope though, follow The Lord.
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Sinful nature is not supported by the Torah. We're inclined from youth toward sin(Gen. 8 21), but we have the power to rule over it(Gen. 4 7). And we're certainly not born with sinful nature. That would imply imperfect creation-G-d's mistake.
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A
aniello
Guest
From the Sages.
The Dual Nature
In Genesis 2:7, the Bible states that G-d formed (vayyitzer) man. The spelling of this word is unusual: it uses two consecutive Yods instead of the one you would expect. The rabbis inferred that these Yods stand for the word "yetzer," which means impulse, and the existence of two Yods here indicates that humanity was formed with two impulses: a good impulse (the yetzer tov) and an evil impulse (the yetzer ra).
The yetzer tov is the moral conscience, the inner voice that reminds you of G-d's law when you consider doing something that is forbidden. According to some views, it does not enter a person until his 13th birthday, when he becomes responsible for following the commandments. See Bar Mitzvah.
The yetzer ra is more difficult to define, because there are many different ideas about it. It is not a desire to do evil in the way we normally think of it in Western society: a desire to cause senseless harm. Rather, it is usually conceived as the selfish nature, the desire to satisfy personal needs (food, shelter, sex, etc.) without regard for the moral consequences of fulfilling those desires.
The yetzer ra is not a bad thing. It was created by G-d, and all things created by G-d are good. The Talmud notes that without the yetzer ra (the desire to satisfy personal needs), man would not build a house, marry a wife, beget children or conduct business affairs. But the yetzer ra can lead to wrongdoing when it is not controlled by the yetzer tov. There is nothing inherently wrong with hunger, but it can lead you to steal food. There is nothing inherently wrong with sexual desire, but it can lead you to commit rape, adultery, incest or other sexual perversion.
The yetzer ra is generally seen as something internal to a person, not as an external force acting on a person. The idea that "the devil made me do it" is not in line with the majority of thought in Judaism. Although it has been said that Satan and the yetzer ra are one and the same, this is more often understood as meaning that Satan is merely a personification of our own selfish desires, rather than that our selfish desires are caused by some external force.
People have the ability to choose which impulse to follow: the yetzer tov or the yetzer ra. That is the heart of the Jewish understanding of free will. The Talmud notes that all people are descended from Adam, so no one can blame his own wickedness on his ancestry. On the contrary, we all have the ability to make our own choices, and we will all be held responsible for the choices we make.
The Dual Nature
In Genesis 2:7, the Bible states that G-d formed (vayyitzer) man. The spelling of this word is unusual: it uses two consecutive Yods instead of the one you would expect. The rabbis inferred that these Yods stand for the word "yetzer," which means impulse, and the existence of two Yods here indicates that humanity was formed with two impulses: a good impulse (the yetzer tov) and an evil impulse (the yetzer ra).
The yetzer tov is the moral conscience, the inner voice that reminds you of G-d's law when you consider doing something that is forbidden. According to some views, it does not enter a person until his 13th birthday, when he becomes responsible for following the commandments. See Bar Mitzvah.
The yetzer ra is more difficult to define, because there are many different ideas about it. It is not a desire to do evil in the way we normally think of it in Western society: a desire to cause senseless harm. Rather, it is usually conceived as the selfish nature, the desire to satisfy personal needs (food, shelter, sex, etc.) without regard for the moral consequences of fulfilling those desires.
The yetzer ra is not a bad thing. It was created by G-d, and all things created by G-d are good. The Talmud notes that without the yetzer ra (the desire to satisfy personal needs), man would not build a house, marry a wife, beget children or conduct business affairs. But the yetzer ra can lead to wrongdoing when it is not controlled by the yetzer tov. There is nothing inherently wrong with hunger, but it can lead you to steal food. There is nothing inherently wrong with sexual desire, but it can lead you to commit rape, adultery, incest or other sexual perversion.
The yetzer ra is generally seen as something internal to a person, not as an external force acting on a person. The idea that "the devil made me do it" is not in line with the majority of thought in Judaism. Although it has been said that Satan and the yetzer ra are one and the same, this is more often understood as meaning that Satan is merely a personification of our own selfish desires, rather than that our selfish desires are caused by some external force.
People have the ability to choose which impulse to follow: the yetzer tov or the yetzer ra. That is the heart of the Jewish understanding of free will. The Talmud notes that all people are descended from Adam, so no one can blame his own wickedness on his ancestry. On the contrary, we all have the ability to make our own choices, and we will all be held responsible for the choices we make.
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In Christ we rise
Yetzer Hara doesnt make you sin, you still have to choose.
Yetzer Hara is expressed in the desires of the body, and other things, which are not inherently sinful but are types of "influences" on us.
Ex. I like the taste of ice cream.
I can choose to eat, or not to eat ice cream, but choosing to worship ice cream is a sin... Etc... But in the end no one is forced to sin against their will.
Yetzer Hara, is no sin nature.
The jews back then, were essentially Pelagians, like me
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HannibalFlavius
Well-Known Member
Who plays the victim?
As I said,'' willfully in full knowledge of the very thing I will do.''
True, I am an enemy of God, son of Satan I am.
Just praise God that you are not an evil sinner as I am, give the Lord thanks.
Somebody has to be evil, or there would be no righteousness, praise God that it's not you.
Praise God you are not a great sinner as I am.
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In Christ we rise
That's eastern-mystic theology.
Ying and Yang.
Of course good can exist without evil, or is evil eternal?
The righteous do not require evil people in order to be righteous.
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up. (James 4:7-10 NKJV)
Do you even want to please God?
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Rather than saying "sinful nature" I would rather say it is that we have a "sinful tendency". "Nature" is indicating that we can not help ourselves, because it is so much a part of us. "Tendency" is saying that we have a weakness towards sinning. There is a big difference. I believe that God believe in us because He knows about our weakness, knows that He never made it a part of our "nature".
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David Ben Yosef
Foundation In Torah
I would need to know what your definition of "sinful nature" is before answering. If you are referring to the Christian doctrine of "original sin" then no, I can't get on board that runaway train.
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