Two Simple Rules of Thumb

[AV1611VET]

Based on over seven and a half years here, I'm now condensing my apologetics down into two simple rules of thumb:

Rule One: Under no circumstances whatsoever is the literal translation of the King James Bible to be contradicted.

If necessary, use even the punctuation therein to defend your point; but never let a point contradict the Bible -- ever.

Rule Two: Seek a logical explanation first; and if that doesn't work, then go with a theological explanation.

Scripture first, followed by basic doctrine, followed by suppositions; but don't let the logical trump the theological.

 

[sfs]

Based on over seven and a half years here, I'm now condensing my apologetics down into two simple rules of thumb:

Rule One: Under no circumstances whatsoever is the literal translation of the King James Bible to be contradicted.

Have you ever explained why you think the King James translation is uniquely infallible?

 

[AV1611VET]

Have you ever explained why you think the King James translation is uniquely infallible?

I get goosebumps whenever It's around.

 

[CabVet]

Based on over seven and a half years here, I'm now condensing my apologetics down into two simple rules of thumb:

Rule One: Under no circumstances whatsoever is the literal translation of the King James Bible to be contradicted.

Except when other translations of the Bible agree with your point and the KJV doesn't, right? Want to restart that discussion of Genesis 1 contradicting Genesis 2 again using the KJV this time?

 

[AV1611VET]

Except when other translations of the Bible make your point and the KJV doesn't, right?

As long as they don't contradict It.

Want to restart that discussion of Genesis 1 contradicting Genesis 2 again using the KJV this time?

No.

 

[CabVet]

As long as they don't contradict It.

They do contradict it.

No.

Of course not, you don't want to break your first rule of thumb in the first page of the thread.

 

[AV1611VET]

They do contradict it.

Then they can take a hike.

Of course not, you don't want to break your first rule of thumb in the first page of the thread.

Ya ... I figure I'll walk my talk; if that's okay with you?

 

[sfs]

I get goosebumps whenever It's around.

Interesting. I get goosebumps from lots of things -- the beginning of Bach's Christmas Oratorio, many lines of Shakespeare, Eva Cassidy singing "Fields of Gold" -- but I don't attribute authority or infallibility to them. To each his own.

 

[bhsmte]

I get goosebumps whenever It's around.

Good logic, goose bumps!

If your rules work for you personally, good for you.

 

[AV1611VET]

If your rules work for you personally, good for you.

Thank you.

 

[Davian]

Based on over seven and a half years here, I'm now condensing my apologetics down into two simple rules of thumb:

Rule One: Under no circumstances whatsoever is the literal translation of the King James Bible to be contradicted.

If necessary, use even the punctuation therein to defend your point; but never let a point contradict the Bible -- ever.

Rule Two: Seek a logical explanation first; and if that doesn't work, then go with a theological explanation.

Scripture first, followed by basic doctrine, followed by suppositions; but don't let the logical trump the theological.

It is nice to see that you have a clear delineation between logical and theological. Often the two are conflated.

 

[AV1611VET]

It is nice to see that you have a clear delineation between logical and theological.

Thank you.

Often the two are conflated.

I consider this to be a major, major difference in debating scientists.

 

[CabVet]

Ya ... I figure I'll walk my talk; if that's okay with you?

Sure, how about we start walking that talk now? Are you ready to admit that in Genesis 1 plants and animals are created first and in Genesis 2 man is first?

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 2:18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sure, how about we start walking that talk now? Are you ready to admit that in Genesis 1 plants and animals are created first and in Genesis 2 man is first?

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 2:18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

286

 

[CabVet]

286

Are you really linking to an explanation using the NIV translation after saying this:

Rule One: Under no circumstances whatsoever is the literal translation of the King James Bible to be contradicted.

And this:

I believe the NIV will be the Antichrist's version of choice during the Tribulation.

So much for walking the talk.

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you really linking to an explanation using the NIV translation after saying this:

Yes, I am.

Since you want to throw out a literal creationism, based on what you think are contradictory passages; but won't consider what other versions of the Bible say.

After all, you are the one who is not confined to KJVO -- I am.

In short, I'm using your own ... logic ... against you; just like you're trying to do to me.

 

[CabVet]

Yes, I am.

Since you want to throw out a literal creationism, based on what you think are contradictory passages; but won't consider what other versions of the Bible say.

After all, you are the one who is not confined to KJVO -- I am.

In short, I'm using your own ... logic ... against you; just like you're trying to do to me.

That's just great: "I am a KJV only person, except when I am not". "My rule #1 is that I will not contradict the KJV, except when I want to use somebody else's logic".

 

[AV1611VET]

That's just great: "I am a KJV only person, except when I am not". "My rule #1 is that I will not contradict the KJV, except when I want to use somebody else's logic".

Let's see how you handle this logically, CabVet:

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Where is Adam, now? in the Garden of Eden? I agree.

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Looks like no trees in the Garden prior to Adam's arrival, does it not?

Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Oh, look here! Did Adam wander off since verse 8?

Looks like God had to put him back in the Garden, doesn't it?

What does your logic say to this?

 

[CabVet]

Let's see how you handle this logically, CabVet:

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Where is Adam, now? in the Garden of Eden? I agree.

So, Adam was created before the garden (the plants). I agree, and that contradicts Genesis 1.

Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Looks like no trees in the Garden prior to Adam's arrival, does it not?

Yes, and it also looks like Adam was created before the trees, which contradicts Genesis 1.

Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Oh, look here! Did Adam wander off since verse 8?

Looks like God had to put him back in the Garden, doesn't it?

What does your logic say to this?

My logic says that Adam was created before the plants, contradicting Genesis 1, which is confirmed by the text (whichever translation you want to use).

But the story doesn't stop there, does it?

Genesis 2:18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Oh, look, Adam was alone*! So, God didn't like that Adam was alone, what did he do? Created the animals

Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

And how does that compare to Genesis 1? Oh yeah, that's right, they are not the same story.

*alone
adjective \ə-ˈlōn\ : without anyone or anything else.

 

[AV1611VET]

So, Adam was created before the garden (the plants). I agree, and that contradicts Genesis 1.

No, it doesn't.

God created the Garden of Eden after He created Adam, then He put Adam in the Garden and paraded the animals past him; finally, God put Adam to sleep and created Eve from one of his ribs.

Once again ... for empahsis ... God created the Garden after He created Adam, but before He created Eve.

As we like to put it: God built the chapel that Adam & Eve got married in.

My question to you, though, is twofold: How many times does the Bible say in Genesis 2 that God placed Adam in the Garden? and how many times did God place Adam in the Garden in Genesis 2?

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.