So can the Genesis be infallible and inerrant history?

[rjw]

I was referring to the great works.

I know you were. It was a part of your original argument.

So how does that help your argument?

 

[bhsmte]

Because there are no religious scientists?

No, because even religious scientists adhere to and believe in the scientific method. If they didn't, they wouldn't be scientists for very long.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Doesn't sound divinely inspired to me, just a bunch of people writing stuff down trying to meet an agenda.

Of course not, you're an atheist.

 

[bhsmte]

Of course not, you're an atheist.

And, one of the main reasons I became an atheist, was a thorough review and investigation of the bible.

To me, the bible itself, is not a friend to folks who claim the God of the bible exists.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I know you were. It was a part of your original argument.

So how does that help your argument?

Man would certainly have written all the great works, but not a book such as the bible, unless divinely inspired to do so. Why would man write such a book on his own? Without the actual existence of God it makes no sense.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And, one of the main reasons I became an atheist, was a thorough review and investigation of the bible.

To me, the bible itself, is not a friend to folks who claim the God of the bible exists.

I agree, but not for the same reasons.

 

[Strathos]

No, because even religious scientists adhere to and believe in the scientific method. If they didn't, they wouldn't be scientists for very long.

Huge red herring. Cabvet said that scientists, unlike religious folk, admit when they are wrong, thus implying that the two groups were mutually exclusive.

 

[bhsmte]

Huge red herring. Cabvet said that scientists, unlike religious folk, admit when they are wrong, thus implying that the two groups were mutually exclusive.

Adhering to the scientific method is all about accepting when you are wrong. If you are proven wrong by this method, you accept it and move on, or chose another career.

 

[bhsmte]

Man would certainly have written all the great works, but not a book such as the bible, unless divinely inspired to do so. Why would man write such a book on his own? Without the actual existence of God it makes no sense.

Well, thats what you have convinced yourself to be the case, but it can be refuted quite easily.

Man has invented Gods for a long long time and made up stories about these Gods, all in an effort to get people to follow them. Do you think Jesus was the only messiah claimed to have been crucified and risen from the dead? These stories where a dime a dozen in mythical times and the story of Jesus mirrors many that came before him.

The powers at be have always tried to control people, so why not create a story that puts fear in people (with all the wrath) and then throw them a bone with eternal life (instead of burning in hell) if you follow all of their rules. It really isn't the hard to figure out the motivation.

 

[Doveaman]

Funny how the Bible never changes,

Actually, we would expect an infallible book to never need changes.

even though it was written by sinners.

Sinners who were "carried along" by an infallible God as they wrote:

"No prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's [sinner's] own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." - (2 Peter 1:20-21).

Since the biblical authors were "carried along" by God as they wrote we would expect that if any human errors crept in, God would have made the authors aware of those errors so as to correct them.

You can call it infallible guidance.

Funny how science is always changing and scientists (unlike the religious folk) constantly admit they are wrong.

Actually, we religious folk get our science wrong too sometimes.

 

[EternalDragon]

Well, thats what you have convinced yourself to be the case, but it can be refuted quite easily.

Man has invented Gods for a long long time and made up stories about these Gods, all in an effort to get people to follow them. Do you think Jesus was the only messiah claimed to have been crucified and risen from the dead? These stories where a dime a dozen in mythical times and the story of Jesus mirrors many that came before him.

The powers at be have always tried to control people, so why not create a story that puts fear in people (with all the wrath) and then throw them a bone with eternal life (instead of burning in hell) if you follow all of their rules. It really isn't the hard to figure out the motivation.

Adam and Eve to Noah would have known about the prophecies of a virgin savior. So you have it backwards. The earlier stories about a crucified and risen savior were based on true future events.

There is no one trying to control people. Who are they? The church? Our government? Those rules (Ten commandments) are common moral rules that we follow today. Besides not following the rules is not what sends you to hell. People are already bond for hell because of Adam's sin.

Accepting Jesus and repenting of your sins is what gets you OUT OF going to hell. The bible, even in the OT, teaches that none of your best, good works is good enough to get you to heaven but they are as filthy rags. Getting to heaven is not based on good deeds. It is based on who you know. Only God can grant eternal life. It is not earned. It is not received from following rules.

 

[46AND2]

Adam and Eve to Noah would have known about the prophecies of a virgin savior. So you have it backwards. The earlier stories about a crucified and risen savior were based on true future events.

There is no one trying to control people. Who are they? The church? Our government? Those rules (Ten commandments) are common moral rules that we follow today. Besides not following the rules is not what sends you to hell. People are already bond for hell because of Adam's sin.

Accepting Jesus and repenting of your sins is what gets you OUT OF going to hell. The bible, even in the OT, teaches that none of your best, good works is good enough to get you to heaven but they are as filthy rags. Getting to heaven is not based on good deeds. It is based on who you know. Only God can grant eternal life. It is not earned. It is not received from following rules.

The church? Uh...yes. our government? Uh...yes.

Common moral rules. What does keeping the Sabbath have to do with morality?

Would that be the same morality demonstrated by a god who punishes all generations for the sin of one man? Despite the fact that he specifically and specially created an Adam who would fall.

 

[rjw]

Man would certainly have written all the great works, but not a book such as the bible, unless divinely inspired to do so. Why would man write such a book on his own? Without the actual existence of God it makes no sense.

Actually lots of people wrote the Bible over the best part of a thousand years. No particular person wrote it. Paul wrote some of the letters in the NT. Various prophets wrote some books in the OT. The authors of other books are disputed.

No one man wrote it.

I think the Koran falls under your implicit definition of a great work more so than does the Bible.

Getting back to your assertion. Why would it make so sense for humans to have written the books of the Bible? Much of the NT is just a collection of letters, written by Paul to instruct others in his growing churches. Paul's letters are just that. They are Paul's letters. So I don't know what your point is.

 

[mzungu]

The arrogance of creationism knows no bounds. Every time I read the posts of creationists who insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible and insist on using it as a science textbook; this film clip comes to mind:

Hulk Vs Loki - The Avengers - HighQ - Puny God - YouTube

 

[biggles53]

Man would certainly have written all the great works, but not a book such as the bible, unless divinely inspired to do so. Why would man write such a book on his own? Without the actual existence of God it makes no sense.

Huh..?

Why would Man write the Greek, Egyptian, Norse, Hindu, Islamic and various indigenous mythologies, if their particular gods didn't exist?..?

 

[Theodor1]

No particular person wrote it.

God uses a peculiar people or as Peter says: "9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;" Not everyone can be used because they are not willing to pay the price in holiness, sanctification, consecration and so on.

 

[Theodor1]

The arrogance of creationism knows no bounds.

Congratulations you just passed judgement on yourself. Or as the Bible says:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." Matthew[/FONT]

 

[rjw]

God uses a peculiar people or as Peter says: "9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;" Not everyone can be used because they are not willing to pay the price in holiness, sanctification, consecration and so on.

Well again, Peter was a fallible human, open to all the foibles of the modern creationists who make the same kind of claims about themselves, or of the particular groups they belong to, but go on to write mistaken things, silly things, and at times even lie.

That Peter believed this assertion, hardly makes it so.

 

[mzungu]

Congratulations you just passed judgement on yourself. Or as the Bible says:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." Matthew[/FONT]

Certainly not! Irrelevant to say the least. Creationism forces itself onto the physical world with such arrogance that no matter what evidence is brought forth ( in accordance to the rules governing science) it just shrugs it off and demands for more evidence. If that is not arrogance then what is

 

[mzungu]

God uses a peculiar people or as Peter says: "9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;" Not everyone can be used because they are not willing to pay the price in holiness, sanctification, consecration and so on.

Wasn't he the one who feared for his life and denied Jesus 3 times? So much for willing to pay the price in holiness. Yet the bible has included the gospel according to Peter and discarded the gospel according to Mary Magdalene and Thomas and many others as well. What hypocrisy is this