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This kingdom or another

Tallguy88

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What would you say to people who rely on the government to get by? I'm talking about people who are unable to work or who work but need assistance such as SNAP, HUD, SSD/SSI, etc. Would you take those programs away?

I think the government has a role to play in helping the least of us in society. After all, the government is a part of society. That doesn't absolve us of our individual responsibility to help our neighbor. But if my neighbor's house burns down, there is only so much I can do for them. This is where insurance, Salvation Army, Red Cross, local churches, and yes, even government can step in to help.

I just don't see it as either/or but rather as both/and.
 
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StevenMerten

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Sorry. Christ was simple spoke of local action. Loving your neighbor is local.
I believe in the local church. and locally the world will be saved.
I don't have any faith in secular government to fulfill ,with the saints money ,the commands of the Lord.
Saint Francis had a vision from God "Rebuild my Church" He started at home.

Hello Brother Bread,

While I do agree that Christianity starts at home, we Catholics do have to reach out to our neighbors across oceans and anywhere people are hungry. The first thing the Apostles did was to leave Jerusalem and go off to preach the gospel to all nations.

I too strongly agree that it is we Catholics who should take on the responsibility for what Christ commands His Church to be doing. Catholics, right on up to Popes, constantly pointing out the faults of presidents, dictators and kings, as to what Christ commands them to do, detracts from the ultimate responsibility Jesus placed upon His Church. Pope's standing before Jesus on Judgement day, saying, 'We told Obama, Hitler, Stalin, and all world leaders to feed the poor, but they did not do it. And thus, people starved to death. What else were we to do?

Obviously, it is One Billion Catholics, along with other Christians and Jews, who are the ones Jesus and the Father commands to feed and care for the poor.

Good work with the bread bus.
 
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Brother Bread

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This is a struggle I have. I have used food stamps and State health care. not now though. I'm not looking for a hand out but I ask where is the church.
Acts 4:34

New International Version (NIV)

34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

We could be greater than the world.
 
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StevenMerten

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This is a struggle I have. I have used food stamps and State health care. not now though. I'm not looking for a hand out but I ask where is the church.
Acts 4:34

New International Version (NIV)

34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

We could be greater than the world.

The Church, Could, and Should, be better than the secular world. Jesus did not promise eternal life to tax payers, Jesus promised eternal life to his followers who feed the poor as He commanded.
 
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When I was a little girl, my father was in the hospital for a year. My mother worked, but it wasn't enough. The pastor of our church provided food each week until my parents got back on their feet.
I work with the poor. I see people who are mentally and physically disabled and I know there is no way for them to survive without assistance. They could never hold down a job. Many times my hands are tied to provide the help they need, particularly housing. But more often, I am disturbed by too many able-bodied women and men who are abusing and draining the system.

Don't think it doesn't happen and more times than you can imagine. It really bothers me because that money could be used for the elderly, and the disabled, who may not have a family or a church to reach out to them.

I could say a lot, but some of you won't believe it anyway.
 
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WarriorAngel

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The Magisterium leaves us in no doubt .

On Dec 7th 1965 the document "Gaudium et Spes" of the 21st Ecumenical Council of the Church was promulgated .

In it we read : " God intended the earth with everything contained in it for the use of all human beings and peoples. Thus, under the leadership of justice and in the company of charity, created goods should be in abundance for all in like manner. Whatever the forms of property may be, as adapted to the legitimate institutions of peoples, according to diverse and changeable circumstances, attention must always be paid to this universal destination of earthly goods. In using them, therefore, man should regard the external things that he legitimately possesses not only as his own but also as common in the sense that they should be able to benefit not only him but also others. On the other hand, the right of having a share of earthly goods sufficient for oneself and one's family belongs to everyone. The Fathers and Doctors of the Church held this opinion, teaching that men are obliged to come to the relief of the poor and to do so not merely out of their superfluous goods. If one is in extreme necessity, he has the right to procure for himself what he needs out of the riches of others. Since there are so many people prostrate with hunger in the world, this sacred council urges all, both individuals and governments, to remember the aphorism of the Fathers, "Feed the man dying of hunger, because if you have not fed him, you have killed him," and really to share and employ their earthly goods, according to the ability of each, especially by supporting individuals or peoples with the aid by which they may be able to help and develop themselves. "

All should be allowed to have access thru their efforts.
No one should be denied the ability to go out and find work due to discrimination.
All should be allowed to perform charity thru their Christian communities.
All should be caring about the other.


This is how i was taught this meant...
When God blesses man with property - he - thru his will and subjection to God - ought to share the wealth thru charity.
Thru giving - because he so chooses to give back to God's ppl [the community of the Church] the blessings he knows God has rendered to him.

For God will take account of what He gives us.
IN performing charity - and acts of giving - we become servants of the Lord.

We show ppl thru our generosity what God ordained mankind to do for others.
The Church then - spreads our charity to others - being the role model to the world of what His Church is.

The sisters in 3rd world countries - have food [thru our generous giving to these nations thru the Church] who rightfully teach Christ - and also rightly teach laboring for a meal....as St Paul condoned we do.

For he said we do not eat another's bread UNLESS we labor for it.

It is an act of love to teach others 'how to work and be employed' so they eat every day.

WE should be collecting and establishing educational means to 3rd world countries so they can prosper and not live off charity always.
Truly loving another is offering them means of dignity.

And government taking taxes - doesnt always work out for the poor. You are talking about secular means that are disinterested entity in regards to salvation for the soul.
And many times - rob the taxes.

This is why every government program - out of the Church's control mind you - takes in and robs...and causes a default.

Higher taxes - do the opposite of what we 'hope' they do.

Some taxes for these purposes are helpful - and keeps the entire economy rolling along so the tax system is in a steady place - while taxes are low enough for business owners to hire out more ppl who have less need for government assistance.


Some taxes help the truly indigent - even world wide - but high taxes destroys a nation.


Let's look at an example - if the Church were demanding 10% from every person - which it doesnt - if it did - it may create hardships. WE are supposed to give when we can afford... but still give.

Now imagine if the Church demanded 40% of your income [post nominal taxes as an example we only paid out 10% in taxes]... would you be able to provide for your families?

Now when we have government upping the tax hike - so what does that do for charitable giving? How much is left for us to give to the Church - when it all is said and done?

Our offerings become meager.
The charity done world wide becomes very restricted.

So we either pay high taxes and low charity ...
OR
We pay low taxes and higher charity.

Lower taxes means - more employment - more businesses available to create jobs.

So when the Church proposes this - as above - she is not proposing high taxes - for nominal taxes causes an economy to thrive.


It really does work that way.

And a strong economy works out for everyone. A weak economy of high taxes causes very high unemployment - and ppl are unable to help others.... let alone themselves very often.
 
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WarriorAngel

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AND lastly - never forget the Church never opposes a Pope.
To steal from the rich to give to the poor - forced spreading the wealth - is theft.
And always causes less employment.

As a matter of fact - my friends ex - who has worked at his job for 17 years - is going to lose his job - its being outsourced because all the employees at one time had a great benefits package that was 'cost effective' - with the new mandated Affordable care act [i type that and shake my head] - the company wont be able to afford the decent salaries of the workers plus prime benefits - and its less expensive to pay employees in India [across the world] who have the same technological computer skills - and not be forced to pay mandated health care.

So his company thats been in business a long time is leaving this country.

And you all wonder why you hear more 'tech help' in foreign languages.

Keep raising them taxes - see if anyone is left in America.
 
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TheOtherHockeyMom

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"from seeking freedom"-
I could say a lot, but some of you won't believe it anyway.

A lot of us would believe you, I would.[/QUOTE]
If you recognize that so many people require assistance from governments and secular charities to survive, and that pushing that burden onto the religions groups alone would lead to much suffering, why would you promote doing that?
 
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