This kingdom or another

[Brother Bread]

This statement is so true. But Did Jesus come to establish a Christian country? Or are we to look for another. Did he say Help the poor by paying taxes or did he say love your neighbor?
I feel we have mixed up secular government with the kingdom .
It has failed miserably.

 

[KatherineS]

It is not an either/or. We are to help the poor by every means. Personal charity, organzied non-governmental charity, social action and public programs.

Those who limit the means in which we help the poor, are not with Christ.

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

It is not an either/or. We are to help the poor by every means. Personal charity, organzied non-governmental charity, social action and public programs.

Those who limit the means in which we help the poor, are not with Christ.

That's how I see it.

 

[Brother Bread]

This is what I'm talking about.

Acts 4:34

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

34 For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the [a]proceeds of the sales

What is the greater Love?

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

Christians have had 2000 years to spread that great love globally. ..but there's still massive poverty. I think if we care about those in need, we need a better system.

 

[Brother Bread]

Secular or Christian system.

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

Secular or Christian system.

Both...our responsibility is to all, right? Not just fellow Christians, fellow Americans, fellow Christian Americans, etc.

 

[Brother Bread]

Well I'm trying to get us to focus. Some times taking on the whole world is over whelming .Christ told us to take care of our neighbor . he knew what we could handle.

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

Well I'm trying to get us to focus. Some times taking on the whole world is over whelming .Christ told us to take care of our neighbor . he knew what we could handle.

But did He know what the starving kids could handle? They are dying in droves...is that part of His plan?

 

[StevenMerten]

Hello Brother Bread,

Jesus says, give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's. Jesus tells us how it will be on Judgement day for those who did not care for the poor; Jesus sends them to hell.

We are commanded by God to give ten percent of our income to God. I think on average most people pay 15 percent in taxes. Look what we tax payers can do with only 15 percent of our income: roads, police, military, space programs, parks, librarys, ect, and we, tax payers even have a little left over for the poor in the world. Governments do a great deal for the poor in the world. Now just think what two billion Christians, paying ten percent could do for the poor with out all the other stuff that tax dollars go for. If two billion Christians and Jews were actually to obey God, out of love for God and neighbor, and pay their ten percent to God, there would be no poor.

NAB MAT 25:31

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.' Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?' And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.' Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?' He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.' And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

 

[Brother Bread]

Peter Maurin of the Catholic worker movement .

Christianity Untried

1. Chesterton says: "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting.2. It has been found difficult and left untried."3. Christianity has not been tried because people thought it was impractical.4. And men have tried everything except Christianity.5. And everything that men have tried has failed.

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

Peter Maurin of the Catholic worker movement .

Christianity Untried

1. Chesterton says: "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting.2. It has been found difficult and left untried."3. Christianity has not been tried because people thought it was impractical.4. And men have tried everything except Christianity.5. And everything that men have tried has failed.

When I see this quote, which may well have some truth to it, it makes me wonder....if we truly receive the Holy Spirit, part of the Trinity. ...why is the Christian ideal a failure? How is it if millions of Christians have the Holy Spirit in the, guiding them, can Chesterton claim this? Since the time of Christ, Christians have started unjust wars, and the world still struggles under poverty and oppression. Christians have also done good, but on the balance they are similar to all other faith and national groups.

Unlike those other groups, Christians should have a powerful advantage to aid them in living their ideal, the Holy Spirit. ..yet they are not doing any better in living their ideals. Why? As Christian influence in the world fades, perhaps due to this, how can we both save the world and save our faith?

 

[Brother Bread]

It really is a struggle against good and evil. Christ asked if there would be faith when he returned.
I wonder if Christianity has been weakened by trying to work with secular organizations. or have Christian Charities become secular void of the Holy Spirit.
Or have charities given us a way out of the command to love our neighbor.

 

[simonpeter]

I know as a Christian I must give to the poor. But for some reason, I don't. I feel great remorse, but for some mysterious reason I just can't give. I am incapable. I only hope God forgives me for this.

 

[Colin]

The Magisterium leaves us in no doubt .

On Dec 7th 1965 the document "Gaudium et Spes" of the 21st Ecumenical Council of the Church was promulgated .

In it we read : " God intended the earth with everything contained in it for the use of all human beings and peoples. Thus, under the leadership of justice and in the company of charity, created goods should be in abundance for all in like manner. Whatever the forms of property may be, as adapted to the legitimate institutions of peoples, according to diverse and changeable circumstances, attention must always be paid to this universal destination of earthly goods. In using them, therefore, man should regard the external things that he legitimately possesses not only as his own but also as common in the sense that they should be able to benefit not only him but also others. On the other hand, the right of having a share of earthly goods sufficient for oneself and one's family belongs to everyone. The Fathers and Doctors of the Church held this opinion, teaching that men are obliged to come to the relief of the poor and to do so not merely out of their superfluous goods. If one is in extreme necessity, he has the right to procure for himself what he needs out of the riches of others. Since there are so many people prostrate with hunger in the world, this sacred council urges all, both individuals and governments, to remember the aphorism of the Fathers, "Feed the man dying of hunger, because if you have not fed him, you have killed him," and really to share and employ their earthly goods, according to the ability of each, especially by supporting individuals or peoples with the aid by which they may be able to help and develop themselves. "

 

[Brother Bread]

Try it some time. You may feel good about it. God sees your sacrifice. And is happy about it.

 

[Brother Bread]

The Magisterium leaves us in no doubt .

On Dec 7th 1965 the document "Gaudium et Spes" of the 21st Ecumenical Council of the Church was promulgated .

That is such an awesome statement.

 

[Tallguy88]

Brother, I'm having trouble understanding what you're getting at. Are you saying we rely too much on government to provide charity, or that government shouldn't be involved in charity at all?

Btw, love that Jimmy Carter quote. Terrible president, great man post presidency though.

 

[StevenMerten]

It really is a struggle against good and evil. Christ asked if there would be faith when he returned.
I wonder if Christianity has been weakened by trying to work with secular organizations. or have Christian Charities become secular void of the Holy Spirit.
Or have charities given us a way out of the command to love our neighbor.

?

Hello Brother Bread,

One time I read where Catholics were gloating over the fact that, in one little disaster, on some island, one billion Catholics almost gave as much as three hundred thousand American tax payers. Is this something to gloat over or be terribly ashamed of?

I see and hear of many Catholics who feel that aid to the poor is for the government and not to come out of their pockets, in donations to the Church. To love and obey Jesus, it is our obligation as Catholics to choose to tithe to the poor to feed the least of Christ's brothers so they do not starve to death.

Can you imagine St. Peter going up to Caesar to explain to him that it is Caesar's obligation to feed the poor, not Christians? Jesus commands that I tell you this to help the poor! Caesar would say in response, "Can somebody please feed this guy to the lions!"

NAB MAT 25:31

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.' Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?' And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.' Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?' He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.' And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

 

[Brother Bread]

Sorry. Christ was simple spoke of local action. Loving your neighbor is local.
I believe in the local church. and locally the world will be saved.
I don't have any faith in secular government to fulfill ,with the saints money ,the commands of the Lord.
Saint Francis had a vision from God "Rebuild my Church" He started at home.