Pope Faults Church’s Focus on Gays and Abortion

[WarriorAngel]

BTW - Michie - i did ask MKJ to clarify what she meant - since i thot the same way you do.
But no - she wasnt saying that.

This was her reply.

Yes. I think I was pretty clear. It can be said to be sinful in much the same way you can say disordered desires are sinful.

 

[Michie]

Disease is from the fall. Sin is from the fall - but sin is a deliberate chosen act.
Diseases are from taking upon sin via our 1st parents - but are not a deliberate chosen disease to have.

Right. But our actions can contribute to whatever condition. Not always but it just depends on the circumstances.

A child born with a defect has not sinned, etc.

 

[Michie]

BTW - Michie - i did ask MKJ to clarify what she meant - since i thot the same way you do.
But no - she wasnt saying that.

This was her reply.

Ooooohhhh....missed that.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Now i would like to emphasize something that has been said several times in these discussions and several times quoting the Catechism...
The inclination isnt sinful - but the act is.
That act is based on dwelling on the temptation - fantasies and so forth as well as literally doing the act.

Diabetes is not something we dwell on.
Diabetes is not something we chose or take upon ourselves to have.
We cannot say we are sinners 'due' to acting on diabetes.

Diabetes - often - is outside our control.
In some instances if it is brought on by obesity - it could be an act of losing weight.

However; other variables also exist.
When someone cannot control hypoglycemia - and they gain weight and medications cannot help - then its not always the fault of the person for gaining weight.

I dont believe there is a real comparison here. Sorry.

 

[Michie]

Well, it’s been a day now since Francis’ terrific interview was published. First thing you should do go read the whole thing, cuz it’s great. What’s fascinating to me is how many people are reacting, not to the interview, but to the dunderheaded way in which it is being misread and misinterpreted in the media. Um, no.

This single sentence is the key to understanding everything else in Francis’ interview...
******************

Hear this! A pope went out to give an interview. And as he talked, some of his words fell to the media, and those birds gobbled them up before they could even be heard. Others of his words fell to those who didn’t understand his context. They received his message with joy...

Open your heart and let the seed of the Pope’s interview yield thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold...

 

[S.ilvio]

A child born with a defect is a result of our fallen state.

Really..?

 

[Michie]

Really..?

Yes.

But lets put what I wrote in context instead of snipping. I said:

How so?

You do not think with our fallen state that death & the harbingers of it were not brought into existence?

A child born with a defect is a result of our fallen state.

Does it equal sin & actively participating in it? No.

Anyway, we are getting wayyyy off topic here. Maybe we should open another thread about the effects of our fallen state.

How do you believe?

 

[S.ilvio]

Yes.

How do you believe?

So what happens when a defect is repairable by medical science? What happens to the 'fallen state'..?

 

[AMDG]

Really..?

If it wasn't for the Fall, where sin entered the world and Adam and Eve were cast out of paradise, the babe would have been born perfect in every way. You weren't taught that?

 

[Michie]

So what happens when a defect is repairable by medical science? What happens to the 'fallen state'..?

It's repaired. Nothing happens to our fallen state. It remains. We still get sick & die.

How do you believe?

 

[S.ilvio]

If it wasn't for the Fall, where sin entered the world and Adam and Eve were cast out of paradise, the babe would have been born perfect in every way. You weren't taught that?

I believe the Garden of Eden tales are/were parables...

 

[S.ilvio]

It's repaired. Nothing happens to our fallen state. It remains. We still get sick & die.

How do you believe?

I am Human, life is finite for all creatures on this planet. Always has been...

 

[Michie]

I believe the Garden of Eden tales are/were parables...

Even if you do you cannot deny our fallen state & the effects of original sin.

 

[Michie]

I am Human, life is finite for all creatures on this planet. Always has been...

That was not God's intent. You realize that right?

You know what the Church believes?

 

[S.ilvio]

That was not God's intent. You realize that right?

You know what the Church believes?

God's Will be done. I live by that maxim every day of my life...

 

[Michie]

God's Will be done. I live by that maxim every day of my life...

Well that's good but I still don't understand where you are coming from theologically. But I'm starving marvin over here & got to get some lunch. Maybe we can continue this later.

 

[S.ilvio]

Well that's good but I still don't understand where you are coming from theologically. But I'm starving marvin over here & got to get some lunch. Maybe we can continue this later.

God made us imperfect. I embrace my imperfections and thank God for each one of them. They help with my struggle against pious vanity.

I am also thankful God has given me the gift of mortality. the thought of being immortal in this life is quite horrific. Not that I want to shuffle off anytime soon..

 

[Michie]

God made us imperfect. I embrace my imperfections and thank God for each one of them. They help with my struggle against pious vanity.

I am also thankful God has given me the gift of mortality. the thought of being immortal in this life is quite horrific. Not that I want to shuffle off anytime soon..

I don't think we are on the same page. You keep talking about it in terms of this life & I'm talking of God's original intent & the effects of our fallen state.

 

[S.ilvio]

I don't think we are on the same page. You keep talking about it in terms of this life & I'm talking of God's original intent & the effects of our fallen state.

Go get your lunch Michie. God is omnipotent. His Will was, is and will be done...

 

[Michie]

Go get your lunch Michie. God is omnipotent. His Will was, is and will be done...

I'm eating chips & salsa now!