NM Supreme Court: Christian Photographers Can't Refuse Gay Weddings

[BlunderAngel]

Which wasn't what we were talking about.

You alluded to religion protected class having no standing in the courts. That's one example similar to photographers who refuse to photograph gay weddings. Just like there are bakers who refuse to bake wedding cakes for gay weddings.
You said the courts don't uphold the protected class of religion.
Sure they did because they didn't repeal that civil rights protection in the SCOTUS DOMA decision. And the SCOTUS DOMA decision did not force all States to recognize gay marriage as valid across the board.

Yes, Blunder. Just like sexual orientation. You might have noticed that the New Mexico State Supreme Court said that businesses which serve the public may not refuse to serve a protected class. I can't refuse to bake cakes for a Hindu wedding. A photographer cannot refuse to photograph a gay wedding.

Sure they can. They can refuse to serve anyone they want in that regard. What the law says they can not do is state they are not going to serve them because they are Hindu, or Gay.
The law doesn't tell you what you can do. The law tells you what you can not do.

 

[kellhus]

You alluded to religion protected class having no standing in the courts. That's one example similar to photographers who refuse to photograph gay weddings. Just like there are bakers who refuse to bake wedding cakes for gay weddings.
You said the courts don't uphold the protected class of religion.
Sure they did because they didn't repeal that civil rights protection in the SCOTUS DOMA decision. And the SCOTUS DOMA decision did not force all States to recognize gay marriage as valid across the board.

Sure they can. They can refuse to serve anyone they want in that regard. What the law says they can not do is state they are not going to serve them because they are Hindu, or Gay.
The law doesn't tell you what you can do. The law tells you what you can not do.

Sure. You can lie about the reason you are declining service. Pretty hard to stop that from happening.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

Sure. You can lie about the reason you are declining service. Pretty hard to stop that from happening.

Or you just charge them an outrageously high amount.

The thing is, with laws like that, you have to ask if we're better off not knowing someone's prejudice up front.

Say you're a gay couple, and someone doesn't like gay people, but wants you to photograph your wedding. By law, you can't decline to provide the service, so, you do. But, during the photography, you do a poor job and the photos turn out badly because of your poor performance. The couple can't repeat the most special day of their lives, so, their wedding photos are pretty much ruined.

Wouldn't we be better of if people could just be honest? Is that homosexual couple better of with ruined wedding photos, or would they have been better served knowing that the photographer that they want to hire doesn't like them, and they should look elsewhere?

 

[kellhus]

Or you just charge them an outrageously high amount.

The thing is, with laws like that, you have to ask if we're better off not knowing someone's prejudice up front.

Say you're a gay couple, and someone doesn't like gay people, but wants you to photograph your wedding. By law, you can't decline to provide the service, so, you do. But, during the photography, you do a poor job and the photos turn out badly because of your poor performance. The couple can't repeat the most special day of their lives, so, their wedding photos are pretty much ruined.

Wouldn't we be better of if people could just be honest? Is that homosexual couple better of with ruined wedding photos, or would they have been better served knowing that the photographer that they want to hire doesn't like them, and they should look elsewhere?

You act like the only two options are between being a twit and breaking the law.

I'll suggest two more.

First, if the strain of operating a business without being a bigot is too much, you can just quit and shut down or sell your business.

Second, you could just simply realize that operating a business that serves the public means interacting with people you don't always like. If the teenage fast food workers in my area can maintain professionalism and work well despite all the imbeciles who treat them like garbage, I'm sure some oh-so-holy "Christians" who claim to care deeply about their "religion" and "God's will" can manage the same.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

You act like the only two options are between being a twit and breaking the law.

I'll suggest two more.

First, if the strain of operating a business without being a bigot is too much, you can just quit and shut down or sell your business.

Second, you could just simply realize that operating a business that serves the public means interacting with people you don't always like. If the teenage fast food workers in my area can maintain professionalism and work well despite all the imbeciles who treat them like garbage, I'm sure some oh-so-holy "Christians" who claim to care deeply about their "religion" and "God's will" can manage the same.

If you're a wedding photographer, it's not that hard to figure out if it's a homosexual wedding.

There's an easy way. All you have to do is require a face to face meeting to discuss rates. If it's homosexual, the quoted price goes up. You don't have to be unprofessional when quoting a price.

And if they protest, you haven't refused service, you've offered to provide the service, but not at a price that they're prepared to meet.

Or, when there's a homosexual couple, she's already booked for that day.

There's always an excuse.

You can still be polite and be passive-aggressive.

 

[kellhus]

If you're a wedding photographer, it's not that hard to figure out if it's a homosexual wedding.

There's an easy way. All you have to do is require a face to face meeting to discuss rates. If it's homosexual, the quoted price goes up. You don't have to be unprofessional when quoting a price.

And if they protest, you haven't refused service, you've offered to provide the service, but not at a price that they're prepared to meet.

Or, when there's a homosexual couple, she's already booked for that day.

There's always an excuse.

You can still be polite and be passive-aggressive.

Sure. I personally don't see how you think being a totally juvenile dick is behavior your consider acceptable from anyone over the age of about 14, much less a Christian business professional. Frankly, your suggestions are disgusting.

I'd much rather see these "Christians" go out of business. If this is how they need to treat people different from them, I don't want them operating and interacting with customers that might potentially include me.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

Sure. I personally don't see how you think being a totally juvenile dick is behavior your consider acceptable from anyone over the age of about 14, much less a Christian business professional. Frankly, your suggestions are disgusting.

I'd much rather see these "Christians" go out of business. If this is how they need to treat people different from them, I don't want them operating and interacting with customers that might potentially include me.

Because using the force of law to compel people to work for you is completely legitimate.

 

[kellhus]

Because using the force of law to compel people to work for you is completely legitimate.

Yes. If people don't like it, they shouldn't set up businesses to serve the general public.

 

[Armoured]

If you're a wedding photographer, it's not that hard to figure out if it's a homosexual wedding.

There's an easy way. All you have to do is require a face to face meeting to discuss rates. If it's homosexual, the quoted price goes up. You don't have to be unprofessional when quoting a price.

And if they protest, you haven't refused service, you've offered to provide the service, but not at a price that they're prepared to meet.

Or, when there's a homosexual couple, she's already booked for that day.

There's always an excuse.

You can still be polite and be passive-aggressive.

I imagine charging homosexuals a different rate to heterosexuals is legally fraught.

 

[MachZer0]

If you read the court decision, you'd have noticed that the justices note that the free individual exercise of religion in the USA does not permit the violation of consumer protection laws in running a public accommodation business.

What that says is that she is not allowed to freely exercise her religios beliefs, but it does not violate her right to do so

 

[MachZer0]

Her religion dictates the terms of trade?

It dictates the terms of how se lives her own life

 

[Ssup]

What that says is that she is not allowed to freely exercise her religios beliefs, but it does not violate her right to do so

Not it doesn't. Running a business that discriminates based on sexual orientation is not a religious right.

 

[MachZer0]

Yes. If people don't like it, they shouldn't set up businesses to serve the general public.

If honosexuals don't like it that there are photographers who object to photographing their ceremonies, they shouldn't get involved in same sex relationships

 

[Ssup]

It dictates the terms of how se lives her own life

Well she's not adhering to her dictates very well if she chooses a profession where that goes against the "terms of how she should live her life."

 

[Ssup]

If honosexuals don't like it that there are photographers who object to photographing their ceremonies, they shouldn't get involved in same sex relationships

If photographers object to same sex couples, they should get into the business of wedding photography.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

It dictates the terms of how se lives her own life

Then maybe she should reconsider her profession.

 

[MachZer0]

Then maybe she should reconsider her profession.

Maybe the homosexuals should reconsider their relationship

 

[Archaeopteryx]

If you're a wedding photographer, it's not that hard to figure out if it's a homosexual wedding.

There's an easy way. All you have to do is require a face to face meeting to discuss rates. If it's homosexual, the quoted price goes up. You don't have to be unprofessional when quoting a price.

And if they protest, you haven't refused service, you've offered to provide the service, but not at a price that they're prepared to meet.

Or, when there's a homosexual couple, she's already booked for that day.

There's always an excuse.

You can still be polite and be passive-aggressive.

So it's better to lie and be a jerk than to attend a same-sex wedding (and get paid for doing so)?

You're priorities seem a tad confused.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Maybe the homosexuals should reconsider their relationship

Yeah... no...

Do you really think anyone, regardless of their sexual orientation, is going to reconsider their relationship just because a prospective wedding photographer happens to be a jerk?

 

[MachZer0]

Yeah... no...

Do you really think anyone, regardless of their sexual orientation, is going to reconsider their relationship just because a prospective wedding photographer happens to be a jerk?

Declining to violate your religious beliefs does not make one a jerk. Forcing someone to violate their religious beliefs does make one a jerk