Laid back or Strict Gospel

[Kadams7701]

I want to get your input AOG churches, if laid back churches really lead more people to Christ. I am a member of a devoted to the word, fire of the Holy Spirit, hell is real and you have to be saved. My church is fairly small, about 50 members, but God blesses and we are growing every week. My uncle has a AOG church that is very laid back, 250+ members, but I do not agree with everything the church preaches and allows. I asked why he decided to give up the strong gospel, and preaching the word of God how it is written, basically if it's wrong it's wrong. He told me he leads more people to Christ by being laid back, and his church grew four times the size it had been, and he makes 6 figures. Has this way of thinking cause people to lead in the wrong direction? It says in the word God has not changed, but it seems that many churches claim he has.

I know if you water down the gospel people do not feel convicted over sin, feel everything is alright. I wonder if you do a disservice to someone by making Jesus out to be just a really cool dude, not the Son of God, watering down Jesus. I have be told my a few laid back preachers, people now don't want to hear what the word of God says, that only scares people away.

So, will you lead more to Christ by claiming "he just a really cool Dude, understands you sin, want give you a hard time".

Are will you lead more to Christ by telling them he is the Son Of God, Died for us, so we can be saved.

 

[CGL1023]

I want to get your input AOG churches, if laid back churches really lead more people to Christ. I am a member of a devoted to the word, fire of the Holy Spirit, hell is real and you have to be saved. My church is fairly small, about 50 members, but God blesses and we are growing every week. My uncle has a AOG church that is very laid back, 250+ members, but I do not agree with everything the church preaches and allows. I asked why he decided to give up the strong gospel, and preaching the word of God how it is written, basically if it's wrong it's wrong. He told me he leads more people to Christ by being laid back, and his church grew four times the size it had been, and he makes 6 figures. Has this way of thinking cause people to lead in the wrong direction? It says in the word God has not changed, but it seems that many churches claim he has.

I know if you water down the gospel people do not feel convicted over sin, feel everything is alright. I wonder if you do a disservice to someone by making Jesus out to be just a really cool dude, not the Son of God, watering down Jesus. I have be told my a few laid back preachers, people now don't want to hear what the word of God says, that only scares people away.

So, will you lead more to Christ by claiming "he just a really cool Dude, understands you sin, want give you a hard time".

Are will you lead more to Christ by telling them he is the Son Of God, Died for us, so we can be saved.

I think the explanation of the parable of the sower applies here see Mt 13:18-23. "
18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
It is only thru teaching the uncompromised Word that a person has the equipping to produce much fruit. People who want to hear "smooth words", a compromised Word and corrupted doctrine will not endure persecution, and probably won't be able to resist the temptations of the world, the flesh. and the devil.

 

[Biblicist]

Undoubtedly there would be many AG and other Pentecostal members who would agree with the general thrust of your post, but we might need a few more specifics so that we are being fair to your uncle in particular.

 

[ltwin]

Agreed Biblicist. I can't really determine what the OP is defining as "strict" and "laid back."



To the OP, what do you define as a "strict" gospel? Should our goal be to be "strict" and unforgiving? I certainly would avoid going to any church that taught legalism, self-righteousness, and intolerance for those who are weaker in the faith.

Or are you using "strict" in the sense of being old fashioned for the sake of being old fashioned? What exactly made the forms and fashions of 1920s Pentecostalism any better than the forms and fashions of Pentecostalism today? They are all forms and fashions that nullify the gospel and hinder the full realization of Apostolic, Spirit-filled Christianity.

What do you define as "laid back"? Are you referring to doctrinal compromise, such as denying that hell is a real place? I certainly would condemn that, and I do agree that there are too many preachers avoiding too many topics for fear of alienating people.

However, I don't think that we need to revert back to the "fire and brimstone" preaching of the past. The world is a radically different place now. Secularization and de-Christianization runs pretty deep in American society today. If we are going to reach this lost generation, we have to meet them where they are and speak in a language that they can understand. We must never compromise, but we also shouldn't be abrasive and hostile in our preaching or in our conduct.

Most importantly, we need to be a prophetic church: hearing what no one else is hearing, saying what no one else is saying, and doing what no one else is doing. It's not about being strict or laid back. It's about preaching the FULL GOSPEL (the parts we like and the parts we don't like) and then living it (loving God and people, becoming like Christ, and moving in the power of the Spirit).

 

[FuegoPentecostes]

A laid back church is a lukewarm church, one that God will vomit from His mouth. One leg in the world and one in the church.

I believe you will certainly fill up a church by preaching a watered down, "cool" kind of God, but in no way will many of those members be truly saved, be true followers of Christ (a.k.a truly loving and OBEYING Him).

By preaching the sometimes hard truths of the Gospel up front, you are ensuring God can look at your church and say even if there are only 50, 40 or 30 members, that is HIS church, His people.

God wants obedience, be holy because He is holy, without holiness no one will see the Lord! There is no such thing as a laid back Gospel. The Gospel is forgiving and merciful, but it is strict. Just because we are no longer bound by the law, does that mean we should sin? God forbid.

 

[ltwin]

A laid back church is a lukewarm church, one that God will vomit from His mouth. One leg in the world and one in the church.

I believe you will certainly fill up a church by preaching a watered down, "cool" kind of God, but in no way will many of those members be truly saved, be true followers of Christ (a.k.a truly loving and OBEYING Him).

By preaching the sometimes hard truths of the Gospel up front, you are ensuring God can look at your church and say even if there are only 50, 40 or 30 members, that is HIS church, His people.

God wants obedience, be holy because He is holy, without holiness no one will see the Lord! There is no such thing as a laid back Gospel. The Gospel is forgiving and merciful, but it is strict. Just because we are no longer bound by the law, does that mean we should sin? God forbid.

The question is: what is your definition of holiness? Some people's definition of holiness is separation of the races because God said so in the Old Testament (that verse is taken out of context but still used to justify racism). Some people's definition of holiness is condemning lipstick and neck ties. Shrug. . .

 

[FuegoPentecostes]

The question is: what is your definition of holiness? Some people's definition of holiness is separation of the races because God said so in the Old Testament (that verse is taken out of context but still used to justify racism). Some people's definition of holiness is condemning lipstick and neck ties. Shrug. . .

My definition of holiness; or anyone's for that matter, doesn't really matter. It's God's definition that matters. God is not going to command us to do something impossible, if He tells us to be holy, it's because He wants us to be holy.

To be holy = to be separate from the world/sin

Life is a sanctification process, the most obvious and important step obviously is receiving Jesus Christ as Savior. Our goal in life after that should be to obey Him, and to be the best Christians we can be. To try and live a life of holiness, free of sin and worldliness. Christ redeems us of what we fail at, of course, but again, just being under grace does not mean by any means we are too take advantage of it and do whatever we want.

 

[dogs4thewin]

A laid back church is a lukewarm church, one that God will vomit from His mouth. One leg in the world and one in the church.

I believe you will certainly fill up a church by preaching a watered down, "cool" kind of God, but in no way will many of those members be truly saved, be true followers of Christ (a.k.a truly loving and OBEYING Him).

By preaching the sometimes hard truths of the Gospel up front, you are ensuring God can look at your church and say even if there are only 50, 40 or 30 members, that is HIS church, His people.

God wants obedience, be holy because He is holy, without holiness no one will see the Lord! There is no such thing as a laid back Gospel. The Gospel is forgiving and merciful, but it is strict. Just because we are no longer bound by the law, does that mean we should sin? God forbid.

It depends on how you define laid back. It does little good to ALWAYS be preaching about Hell and the justice side of God it turns people away but more than that gets them confused about God. On the other hand, a church also should not ALWAYS focus on grace with no justice. If by laid back you mean accepting everything and not preaching about sin then that is bad, BUT if by laid back you mean that they accept everyone as they are while preaching about sin. That is that you teach them they are in sin, but love the sinner hate the sin then that is GOOD.

 

[Kadams7701]

Laid back, I am referring to watering down what the word of God. Preaching that not all sin is bad, have a few beers, just don't get to drunk. I can't give up smoking, and why should I, there is a smoking section outside the AOG church. If Jesus was here he would let me bum a smoke off him, maybe drink a beer with me. I know you have to be convicted over your sin, but you also have to be living for God to be convicted. This is the type of thing I am referring to by say "laid Back".

Strict, I am referring to simply, following the word of God completely. As you know, not everything is easy to do, some things are tough. I am not referring to churches that follow traditions, things that are not of the Word Of God, but put in place by the pastor. I do not follow traditions, find a lot are not of God, there for unhealthy.

I am simply talking about churches that pick and choose what they want from God, if it offends they don't do it.

 

[ltwin]

My definition of holiness; or anyone's for that matter, doesn't really matter. It's God's definition that matters. God is not going to command us to do something impossible, if He tells us to be holy, it's because He wants us to be holy.

To be holy = to be separate from the world/sin

Ok. That is the standard definition of holiness. Not very specific however.

Life is a sanctification process, the most obvious and important step obviously is receiving Jesus Christ as Savior. Our goal in life after that should be to obey Him, and to be the best Christians we can be. To try and live a life of holiness, free of sin and worldliness. Christ redeems us of what we fail at, of course, but again, just being under grace does not mean by any means we are too take advantage of it and do whatever we want.

What does obeying Christ look like? What does being "the best Christians we can be" look like? What does worldliness and the absence of worldliness look like?

I don't mean to sound nitpicky here. But I do get a little tired of people hollering about the state of the church being one of being "laidback" and "worldly" and unwilling to promote "holiness" when the people saying all of this don't really define what it is that they are in opposition to. Just because you say you are against "worldliness" or you want the church to be "holy" doesn't mean that anyone else understands how YOU define those terms.

For example, I think that the inordinate focus on money and prosperity and what I can get from God instead of what God wants me to do for him mentality in many of today's churches is an example of the church being "worldly." That is a concrete phenomenon that someone can point to and say: this is a problem.

 

[Gospel Guy]

I know if you water down the gospel people do not feel convicted over sin, feel everything is alright. I wonder if you do a disservice to someone by making Jesus out to be just a really cool dude, not the Son of God, watering down Jesus. I have be told my a few laid back preachers, people now don't want to hear what the word of God says, that only scares people away.

Yeah, and offerings go down so the preacher don't
make much money... can't have that, now can we?

You know, the mo folks be up in there on Sunday
monin givin they shillins, the better the preacha
be dressin and folk thank the devil ain't be messin,
so it's gotta be of God, right?

That's a quote from that new white Christian
rappa called "Safe Cracker"

 

[dogs4thewin]

Laid back, I am referring to watering down what the word of God. Preaching that not all sin is bad, have a few beers, just don't get to drunk. I can't give up smoking, and why should I, there is a smoking section outside the AOG church. If Jesus was here he would let me bum a smoke off him, maybe drink a beer with me. I know you have to be convicted over your sin, but you also have to be living for God to be convicted. This is the type of thing I am referring to by say "laid Back".

Strict, I am referring to simply, following the word of God completely. As you know, not everything is easy to do, some things are tough. I am not referring to churches that follow traditions, things that are not of the Word Of God, but put in place by the pastor. I do not follow traditions, find a lot are not of God, there for unhealthy.

I am simply talking about churches that pick and choose what they want from God, if it offends they don't do it.

OK However I will say I have NO problem with people drinking and NOT getting drunk. If I did, I would need to be told to practice what I preach. I have drunk alcohol before twice upon turning legal (21).

 

[Gospel Guy]

OK However I will say I have NO problem with people drinking and NOT getting drunk. If I did, I would need to be told to practice what I preach. I have drunk alcohol before twice upon turning legal (21).

Drinking booze is a sin... because medical science has proven it to be poison to the body, meaning God did not design your body to ingest toxic substances such as alcohol or cigarettes.

REPENT, ask God to forgive you, and present your body to the Lord as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service unto the Lord (Romans 12:1–2)

Remember, the Lord said in 2 Corinthians 6:17 "Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you"

 

[dogs4thewin]

Drinking booze is a sin... because medical science has proven it to be poison to the body, meaning God did not design your body to ingest toxic substances such as alcohol or cigarettes.

REPENT, ask God to forgive you, and present your body to the Lord as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service unto the Lord (Romans 12:1–2)

Remember, the Lord said in 2 Corinthians 6:17 "Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you"

Science has ALSO proven that in moderation it can help with health. IF it is done in moderation and one is careful if he or she is on additional prescriptions.

 

[dayhiker]

I've preached strongly and I've preached softly, what I do is to follow as best I can how the Holy Spirit leads.
Many years ago I knew a guy who ran the sound board for a Bible college. The leaders wanted him to play with the board so that every musical group sounded one way and every preacher sounded one way. They thought somehow that God's Spirit moved more that way. But of course that isn't true and I think that trained Christians to miss other moves of God that didn't sound exactly like what they learned in bible college.

Worldly and sinful. I view these as synonyms. But some seem to give me the impression that there is sin and then there are worldly things that are not sin but almost sin. So drinking a beer isn't a sin but its worldly. This is a great technique because we can't find God saying a lot of things are sinful but some Christains are sure they are sinful, so God must have forgot to tell us they are sinful and thus we make a new category, "worldly" and put all those things that we think are ungodly and sinful but God forgot to tell us in His word.

I speak against sin and worldliness saying they are the same thing. God didn't divide sins into two categories (sin and almost sin) as far as I can tell.

 

[ltwin]

See, the issue of alcohol for me is one of the confounding elements in this whole worldliness debate. Let me start off by saying that I was raised in a household that did not drink and did not condone it. I never drank in high school, and I never drank in college. I have no desire to. The one time I took a sip of beer I hated it, and never saw the point in drinking something that tasted so nasty.

I also factor in that both my grandfathers (one of which is now saved and no longer drinks) were what can only be described as sorry drunks when my mom and dad were growing up. So, given that history and the limited tasting experience I have with the stuff, I CHOOSE not drink alcoholic beverages. For me, its a matter of personal responsibility.

However, the arguments that I've heard from the church all my life that all alcohol, even in moderation, is sin never convinced me. This is a man made tradition. It CANNOT be proven from the Scriptures.

No, I don't think that Christians need to start flocking to bars. However, I also don't think we should make drinking one glass of alcohol for those adults who have no history of alcoholism a shameful thing.

 

[parsley]

Many small congregations are struggling. I would guess that like any organization, they are trying strategies to ensure sustainability.

When doing this they are not completely denying truth or our calling -- they are shifting toward evangelism, which is an important part of our mission. It seems to have changed the definition of AOG, but in this world, not many things stay the same.